to speak to my boss about colleague abusing flexible working

[hatgirl]

argh... let me say first of all I am not a clock watcher, I work in a stressful job and people frequently work over their hours and there is a general agreement that a few minutes here or there or a slightly longer lunch occasionally is more than deserved pay back. We are a good, supportive team and there is pretty much no bad feeling other than the occasional niggle which is always resolved openly and professionally (yey for us!)

Essentially we are very much trusted by our manger who knows how hard we all work and various members of staff have different flexible working patterns in place which works well.

Myself and another colleague have recently started working 'compressed hours' essentially we work 10 days worth of hours over 9 days and have the 10th day off. For this to work we take shorter lunches, and work an extra bit at the start and end of each day... or at least I do, my colleague is working normal hours but still taking the 10th day off. At first I thought she didn't understand the system (I requested it first and she piggybacked her own request on the back of mine) so had a chat with her about it explaining the system again.

A few months down the line and she is still basically taking the piss. She is close to retirement and was recently refused voluntary redundancy - she is annoyed with the organisation and when I have reiterated to her the importance of us doing 10 days over 9 (again this is not done in a horrible way just in a general discussion way)she basically laughs at me and says that the organisation owes her after years of service (which is probably a fair point but doesn't change the fact that she is getting a paid day off every 2 weeks).

I'm now in two minds whether or not to now go to my manager as I am getting nowhere discussing with her directly, or if I should just wind my neck in and let her get on with it after all it doesn't exactly directly impact on me.

My boss will come down on her like a ton of bricks as him trusting us not to abuse flexible working is a big thing when he could be a complete arse about it if he wanted to be and he will be really disappointed that she is doing this. I actually really like my colleague and don't want her to get into trouble but a) her wages come out of public money

and

b) I am absolutely shattered doing the longer days (a lot of this is also because I have a longish commute - she lives 10 mins away from work) but value the day off in return and don't feel it fair she is getting the same benefit without putting in the work - also other colleagues not formally doing compressed hours are working the same hours if not more than her and are not getting a day off at all!

As much as I like her I just think her attitude on this issue stinks.

Would I be unreasonable in having a word with my boss and creating bad feeling in the team?

Or am I being petty and it is my bosses job to notice this and sort it out? Its literally as little as coming in 10 mins late, taking an extra 30 mins for lunch and leaving 10 mins early but it all adds up to the extra 50 minutes we work extra each day to get the 10th day off.

or you're even...

I'd say something. Its public sector money and it all adds up. If shes not doing the hours shes supposed to be doing, then that makes things run even more inefficiently. Public sector workers need to be accountable for what they do and she is taking the piss. I say that as a public sector worker myself.

I am amazed how many people think that the OP is being unreasonable.

I would confront the woman and say that you know people have been expressing concerns about how the new 9/10 day system is working...as do you because she is not pulling her weight. If there is no change, I would report to the boss...but with an expectation that you might also lose the perk.

A further thought...in my company you would be expected to report this to the Ethics Hotline. It is fraud of a sort which is costing the company money. I doubt you would be disciplined for not reporting it, but it would certainly have the potential to impact badly on you if it came to the manager's attention via another avenue.

I'm sorry, I disagree it would have a negative impact on the OP if she didn't report it, she is not the manager, nor is there a clocking in system, moreover, the OP has clarified that they are in professional roles (i.e. not in a more time-based clock in/out role such as on reception or custumer services). Usually people in professional roles have considerable autonomy including the ability to work flexibly (who knows if this lady catches up in her spare time).

If this colleague's experience is so valued they didn't want to make her redundant, then the chances of them wanting to take this forward formally is nil. I think the OP is right in her approach to focus on sorting out the IT help, and then leave her colleague to her conscience and her manager. I bet hardly anyone who is shouting 'report her' has really reported anyone in their working life, and abuses of this nature happen everywhere, so there would be plenty to report (e.g. taking things from stationary cupboard, we even had a spate of missing toilet rolls recently, being less than fit for work, underperformance, not keeping to set hours).

Pan... I've worked in and alongside local authorties, LEAs, civil service, environment agency and a bewildering assortment of Quangos... What am I misunderstanding exactly?

Ethics hotline? Does that really exist?

The simplest thing to do would be to talk to her straight, tell her you know she isn't doing her hours, tell her you are worried about getting into trouble because you know and have done nothing about it, and that if she makes a point of doing her full hours from now on you will say nothing about it.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe my manager didn't tell me he had reservations my colleague told me that herself, my manager would never be that indiscrete about his opinions of anyone in his own team.

Don't know why I feel the need to leap to the defence of someone none of you will ever meet in RL... probably because he is about the only person that is stopping the entire team from being absolutely on its knees by taking a lot of the pressure himself. I think thats another reason why it annoys me she is abusing his trust.

I know... a hard-working, flexible, public sector manager! They really do exist!

Who are these 'managers' who must never be disturbed or confronted with a situation like this anyway?

A manager who doesn't want to know about an abuse of company time or any problem with staff; who would see it as 'telling tales'; who would inwardly sigh at having to do something about it..? If all that is too much trouble for such managers, then what do they see their role as if they have staff to er...manage?

In truth I have worked for a couple of people who would probably fit this description and they were terrible managers, because they weren't managing anything other than their own self importance. The door was firmly shut, they were unapproachable and because people were not expected to bother them 'trivial' problems could become bigger problems. Ultimately an ineffective way to manage anything.

But yes they are out there. How they get to be a manager is a mystery.

"If shes not doing the hours shes supposed to be doing, then that makes things run even more inefficiently."

If she is getting the work done in less hours than contracted, than that's efficient. There's no value in her staying longer to warm her seat just so that the contracted hours are fulfilled.

But for the same reason I don't think flexitime, or compressed hours make much sense, certainly not in a job which is about results rather than really having to be present.

Presenteeism does not improve results and worked hours are not a good measure for somebody's efficiency.

If her actions aren't meaning you are doing extra work i wouldn't say anything for a few reasons;

It's not really your business

Boss might decide none of you can be trusted at all.

Boss might take away the option for everyone.

If she is getting the work done in less hours than contracted, than that's efficient. There's no value in her staying longer to warm her seat just so that the contracted hours are fulfilled.

Sure, a fair point. It depends what her work is really.

Is she getting all her work done op?

LittleChimneyDroppings its hard to say, as we work on a caseload basis - there are certain things that 'have' to be done, and she isn't getting them done, but neither are the rest of us as we are chronically understaffed and it is an impossible task. There are things that technically we don't need to do but we do because that is what we came into the job to do and wouldn't be doing the job properly if we didn't, and she does them absolutely fine. I have in the past taken some of the 'have' to be done tasks from her if it is a piece of work we are both involved with as I can do them in a quarter of the time and depend on them being completed to meet deadlines of my own.

My view would be get on with your own job and don't worry/get involved about what anybody else is doing.

There will always be the odd crap worker wherever you work. Everybody knows who they are (eventually).

Reporting them just causes stress for you. You end up being asked to give witness statements, people get suspended, other workers resent you, worker may come back and be sat next to you for the next ten years.

Take pride in what you're doing and do your job well. And try and detach from what anybody else is doing.

That's my survival strategy after many years of office working.

Sorry long thread, is OP a member of a union? That's what they are for, to help with problems like this.

The more I think about it the more I think I'd say something to my boss. I'd insist on not being specific, just "I don't think she's putting in the hours she's supposed to." and leave it to boss to find their own way to "find out".

I would feel dishonest if I did anything else.

Just a thought, could you not just type up instructions for saving work or making folders and hand it to her. Tell her to refer to it as you are busy at the moment.

deste
I did that after about 3 months of working together. 18 months later its not changed a thing - we are a paperless (ha) office so everything is saved electronically which means she has to ask me to either email it to her again every time she wants it because she hasn't been able to save it from the previous time , or has to ask me to help her find the saved copy from the time before that. If i'm going to that much trouble I might as well show her how to do what ever it is she is asking me to send the instructions for. Its endless...

The worst part is that she knows that she is being a bit of a PITA at times so then doesn't ask me for help anywhere as near as much as she needs which then leads to a bigger disaster when she accidentally loses/ deletes/ saves over something because she didn't want to ask.

Again... this is really a separate issue to the whole day off for free thing. She was rubbish with IT long before the new working hours came into place.

And to Flatbread who has made a number of posts which reflect the AIBU side of how I feel about this issue - I am very much for a performance based system rather than a bums on seats approach which is why I arranged to work the hours I do (compressed and flexible) as I found it was a much more productive way of working for me personally and I think my manager is that way inclined too. It doesn't change the fact though that my colleague is working 9 days and gets a salary for 10 regardless of output as it is the public sector and pay is not performance related. She certainly is not any more productive than other full time members of staff but this is difficult to quantify due to the job role and other agreements she has in place around a reduced work load to a specific piece of work she has been stuck with for some time. She does a 'fair days' work and as such completes 9 days worth of work in 9 days rather than 10 days worth of work in 9 days... which is what she is paid for.... but there would be no way at all of demonstrating this.

As for the comment about if the biggest skill you bring is your IT knowledge, it is quite honestly replaceable as people who know a bit of IT are not hard to find (and most organisations have an IT department anyway) I wasn't employed for my IT skills, it is an additional feather to my bow which is utilised significantly by the team I work in. I work in a specialised area that require a number of specific qualifications that are not at all related to IT. I am very unusual in my role for having any interest in 'computers'. My job would not be at risk at all if I no longer provided this additional service informally to the team.

It has been interesting to your (flatbread) opinion of me as it is not how I recognise myself and I'm fairly sure (i hope) that it is not how others who know me would recognise me. As I intimated at the start of all this, it doesn't sit comfortably with me and yet I am usually fairly laid back about stuff like this which is why I am questioning if, friendship aside, I should be doing more to address it.

Thanks everyone!

Her inability to learn how to use IT is itself pretty staggering. I would say you have to get out of helping her with that. It's just not doing any good. She will have to go on a proper course or take the consequences of losing documents etc. Unless of course she has worked out that this way others do a lot of her work for her, and other people's expectations of her are conveniently lowered!

Snazzy she doesnt need to learn because she is used to people doing it for her. If I was the OP that would be my main gripe, because of the hours she is losing, week in and week out, teaching something to someone who has been taught it many times before!

I'd be pissed off too OP it's pretty damn cheeky of her to blatantly rub it in your face that she is getting a free day off and you aren't.
However I have a feeling grassing her in will make life significantly harder for you at work when the shit hits the fan, if you make a complaint they will need to investigate and you will be left feeling like the bad guy.

I would make it known to her that her that you disapprove of her brazen piss taking , that you find it extremely unfair and if she doesn't buck up her ideas you will need to speak to your boss, you can be nice but assertive about it.

Just struck by the fact you keep saying how nice this colleague is and what a good relationship you have,

But she's not nice....you are. She is taking the piss, disturbing you constantly, not making the slightest effort to learn key requirements of her job etc etc.

You are right to feel aggrieved, and I think if you stop and think, and realise she's not as nice as you are saying, it will be easier to have a fairly frank conversation on the lines of.....what you are doing really impacts me and you need to stop or I will have no choice but to address it. And rather than saying you will report her, perhaps your threat is you will ask the manager to implement a time monitoring system for flexi-workers.

This has been a fascinating read as it touches on ethics, friendship, real life experiences, assumptions about working arrangemts in the public sector.

I would be resentful but I know I'd never do anything about it. I'm not assertive enough for that. I would also be very cautious in the future around snitches and keep my distance. You're in a difficult situation.