to speak to my boss about colleague abusing flexible working

[hatgirl]

argh... let me say first of all I am not a clock watcher, I work in a stressful job and people frequently work over their hours and there is a general agreement that a few minutes here or there or a slightly longer lunch occasionally is more than deserved pay back. We are a good, supportive team and there is pretty much no bad feeling other than the occasional niggle which is always resolved openly and professionally (yey for us!)

Essentially we are very much trusted by our manger who knows how hard we all work and various members of staff have different flexible working patterns in place which works well.

Myself and another colleague have recently started working 'compressed hours' essentially we work 10 days worth of hours over 9 days and have the 10th day off. For this to work we take shorter lunches, and work an extra bit at the start and end of each day... or at least I do, my colleague is working normal hours but still taking the 10th day off. At first I thought she didn't understand the system (I requested it first and she piggybacked her own request on the back of mine) so had a chat with her about it explaining the system again.

A few months down the line and she is still basically taking the piss. She is close to retirement and was recently refused voluntary redundancy - she is annoyed with the organisation and when I have reiterated to her the importance of us doing 10 days over 9 (again this is not done in a horrible way just in a general discussion way)she basically laughs at me and says that the organisation owes her after years of service (which is probably a fair point but doesn't change the fact that she is getting a paid day off every 2 weeks).

I'm now in two minds whether or not to now go to my manager as I am getting nowhere discussing with her directly, or if I should just wind my neck in and let her get on with it after all it doesn't exactly directly impact on me.

My boss will come down on her like a ton of bricks as him trusting us not to abuse flexible working is a big thing when he could be a complete arse about it if he wanted to be and he will be really disappointed that she is doing this. I actually really like my colleague and don't want her to get into trouble but a) her wages come out of public money

and

b) I am absolutely shattered doing the longer days (a lot of this is also because I have a longish commute - she lives 10 mins away from work) but value the day off in return and don't feel it fair she is getting the same benefit without putting in the work - also other colleagues not formally doing compressed hours are working the same hours if not more than her and are not getting a day off at all!

As much as I like her I just think her attitude on this issue stinks.

Would I be unreasonable in having a word with my boss and creating bad feeling in the team?

Or am I being petty and it is my bosses job to notice this and sort it out? Its literally as little as coming in 10 mins late, taking an extra 30 mins for lunch and leaving 10 mins early but it all adds up to the extra 50 minutes we work extra each day to get the 10th day off.

Flatbread, can I just say you're a terrible manager.

It's not about your working in a results based environment and only being bothered about results. You've utterly failed to comprehend the issue at the heart of the discussion here. OP doesn't work in that environment so performance/results based working is irrelevant.

I'm a senior director in a global corporation with Europe-wide responsibilities. We're a completely results based organisation - shareholders care about little else - but I can see that total flexibility doesn't suit all situations.

If you think it's such a non-issue for OP's colleague to be flagrantly disregarding the rules in place, why don't you allow your people to have an extra day off for every 2 weeks? It won't make any difference if you manage as you say you do, so why don't you just do it? Give them all an extra 5 weeks' holiday per year?

If you're being genuine when you say you'd be pissed off that the issue was brought to your attention, meaning you had to do something about it, I struggle to believe you're really a people manager at all.

Are you sure you're not something like a 'Sales Manager' where the management side is only about managing commercially, rather than managing people?

I just can't believe any people manager would be so dismissive of a team member's concerns. What do you do if someone comes to you with any other issue not directly related to targets? Is that as irrelevant to you as a concern about a colleague committing fraud?

What you should do if you think it's irrelevant is at least tell the complainer to note down their concerns and let you review them. If you then go back them and and say, "I don't agree it's an issue for xyz reason, do you understand that?", then fine. But to be pissed off because an HR issue was brought to your attention? Wow.

Do you have compliance and ethics issues with your people? I'd be surprised if you don't (although you may not know about them) because if people aren't able to approach you about anything that's on their mind, it fosters poor discipline. With your attitude I'd very surprised if there aren't some serious issues bubbling under the surface in your department.

What if someone comes to you and tells you their partner has a form of cancer which is likely to be terminal, as one of my department managers did on Wednesday? Would you be pissed off because it was brought to your attention so you had to deal with it although it doesn't directly affect targets?

Or do you fly out to their office the following day, as I did, to show some support and make sure they felt able to talk about how their work may be affected?

I'm utterly dismayed by your attitude to managing people issues.

Can anyone explain why, if not working your contracted hours is defrauding the company, companies aren't defrauding their employees whenever they fail to pay them all their overtime (as seems to have previously been the case here according to the OP)?

From what was said it sounds like it wasn't agreed overtime, but staying late at the employee's choice. If someone finds they're doing that a lot or it's expected then they need to try to formalise the arrangement. But I think in this case it's more a general feeling of being aggrieved on the part of HopelessWithITWoman. And in any case, two wrongs don't make a right.

Shelly,

I am actually a very good manager/director and the people who work for me are high-performers. They have to be, given our client fees and revenue model.

I am very open when people come with issues and want a work-around, e.g., had a baby, marriage in trouble (common in my industry), illness or partner working abroad and spouse needs flexible hours.

What I don't have any patience for are snitches, people who jealously report their colleagues and are busybodies, watching what everyone else is doing.

I have a good handle on what my team does, and if I cut someone slack, I don't want others moaning about it. Focus on your own work, and I will make sure my decisions don't unreasonably increase work load for others. But whining about 'fairness'....? I am not their mummy to treat everyone equally, each one is treated on a case-by-case basis based on their experience, loyalty and team contribution. I will not tolerate snitches or discord within my team for petty jealousies and clock-watching nonsense.

I am sorry to say, OP comes across as very badly here. I would definitely not want someone like her on my team.

cuillereasoupe its a professional role so occasional overtime is expected and is part of the salary (says so in my contract - how kind of them!). However most people regularly work over their hours (particularly part timers) due to the nature of the work. If something happens at 5pm you can't just walk away.

Flatbread on the basis of the fact that I have asked an anonymous question about how to deal with what could be perceived as an unfair situation at work you wouldn't employ 'someone like me'? I feel a Pretty Woman moment coming on .

Flatbread your style of "management" could easily be considered favouritism...

So are there guidelines about when "occasional" overtime shades into "regular"? I'm guessing not... so would it be fair to say that the service is getting plenty of free work out of the rest of you? I'd be crosser about that than about your colleague.

" Joiningthegang

There appear to be 2 camps here -

One who like rules and think you should sit atyour desk to the required hours regardless

The other who trust people to do what they are paid for well and the hours not so important."

No you're wrong. What we think doesn't matter. What matters is what they have agreed, contractually, with the place they work. And they've agreed to do x hours over 9 days. And she isn't, and I bet good money she's not open about it to her boss (does he never call or email her when she's meant to be in?)

Depressing thread. Would it be ok if this woman was claiming for an hours overtime each night that she wasn't doing? General consensus would seem to be that's fine.

SPB, is it OK for OP and her colleagues to be regularly doing extra hours for no extra pay when their contracts stipulate that overtime should be occasional?

Workplace fairness and loyalty works both ways. I don't agree with the OP's colleague's passive aggressive handling of the situation but I can understand why she might feel she's owed the time off.

How would you feel if she ended up dismissed for what she has done and lost her pension as a result :-/

Cuillera that is nothing to do with this. The colleague isn't doing overtime. If the op and others are, why do you think that is? I imagine carrying skivers must have something to do with it.
And I fond it hard to believe this overworked manager has nevr needed to contact her during these times

Wonda, would you refuse to report fraud? What if the poor criminal lost his or her employment or standing inbthe community? Which crimes are ok and where is the line drawn for you?

Would you be happy for this woman to claim regularly for overtime she doesn't do?

You don't lose your pension from being fired... If she has a final salary pension and expects to get a huge pay rise before retirement then getting fired might be a bugger in terms of her pension calculation, but you don't lose your pension by losing your job.

she says that the organisation owes her after years of service (which is probably a fair point)

most people regularly work over their hours (particularly part timers) due to the nature of the work

Sounds to me like the colleague has been doing unpaid overtime for years and is doing this to claw some of it back.

I did loads of unpaid overtime last week. Just going to dip my hand in the till.

Is it differnt? Or is that ok? Because if so I inhabit a different world from the rest of you.

I wouldn't tell but agree with you totally it is unfair
I would just say to her that you won't tell but think she is being unfair to you and other workers and that you resent it and she is not been a team player
It is then upto her what she does with that

And if I managed someone who was stealing now because of overtime worked years ago when I probably didn't even manage them, my opinion of their professionalism would plummet. Ultimately this sort of thing has to be arranged and agreed in advance. Or its just fraud with some guilty justification bollocks thrown in

No, I said it's not OK, that the colleague is being passive aggressive and should have a word with her manager rather than taking the piss.

You think it's depressing that people should get paid for hours they don't work. I think it's depressing that companies don't pay for hours that get done.

It's so hard. I complained about a colleague as they got hardly any work done, made lots of mistakes and ended up causing me extra work. To thank me for bringing it to their attention I was made redundant. Apparently, despite me being asked to sort out this colleague's mistakes, some of which has cost the company a lot of money, she was better at the job than me

Oh fair enough, sorry I misunderstood. Thought you were arguing that it was understandable. I don't agree. If you think Tesco are hugely ripping you off, fine. You deal with it appropriately. You're not justified in stealing from them in retaliation.

If she is "close to retirement" is it worth rocking the boat? If she is a popular member of staff you risk considerable ill will from other colleagues.

No good will come to you from this OP.Keep your trap shut!

Just because she is close to retirement, it doesn't allow her to get away with fraud!

I realise that it's a bit tangential but my point is that people on the thread are saying she's committed fraud because she's not respecting her contracted terms. But nor is the service by making people work regular unpaid overtime. I think the latter is worse because it's systematic. In the OP's shoes, I'd be more up in arms about that than about one isolated colleage taking the piss.