AIBU to think there is a problem on MN discussing anything at all to do with income

[amillionyears]

There are a lot of threads started nowadays, that are causing offence to people who are on low incomes.

It is getting increasingly difficult for those on higher incomes to discuss quite a lot of things.

I dont know if the answer is for those with more income, to not talk much about anything, or those with less income to let them talk about what they want to talk about.

I dont know the answer to all of this.
I would like both sets, or indeed anyone in the middle, to be in harmony on MN!

ok ethel

you are clearly unwell

I'll just leave it be.

We both know you were quite wrong as is proven in black and white

that will have to suffice

As I posted it's not so much the complaints about being skint because you can't afford designer knitwear, or to get the piano cleaned, or afford to pay a cleaner any more.

It was the fact they called those sorts of things poverty.

When poverty does exist. When there are people struggling to feed their families and heat their homes.

If you've ever been in the position of raiding a recycle bin for newspaper to use as sanpro because you can't afford it, if you've not turned on the heat this week so you can eat, if you've counted out your coppers in the shop and STILL had to put the milk back, then having the above examples called poverty is brayingly insensitive.

Nobody said mc people can't live in poverty. There are professionals out there with the heat/eat/roof dilemma. They're going through a hell of a lot more than stopping shopping at Boden, though.

And just to clear up the rest.

You were not singled out horribly. I told a story to illustrate what formed my awarenesses.

You commented on it from your own free will. It developed from there.

You seem to have absolutely no sympathy for anyone but yourself and be incapable of even a basic apology for telling a blatant lie.

hey ho.

But that is the point of the OP isn't it.

If I said

I am a nurse and earn 20k
My husband earns 40

We have a good amount of saving and a policy which brings in £150 a month so my income would continue if I gave up work but we would be worse off.

We each have a car (mine's an old banger) I suppose I could give that up if I stopped work. But my daughter would have to stop her music lessons and I'm feeling a little guilty.

No-one would say I was being insensitive by posting details.

Either it works for all - or it doesn't.

I knew it didn't ;)

This thread is too depressing

No I am not wrong, you have just misread my posts. I asked a question to begin with. You acted as though I had made a statement. And ignored the one statement I did make which is that I did respect and have empathy for your friend's mum.

You haven't responded to the point I made about other posters claiming that I had said the exact opposite.

Then you proceeded to patronise me and lecture me about 'being rude' for 'ignoring' Your Highness when I had had a fucking hospital appointment for a fucking problem that means I can't fucking walk.

What a horrible horrible person you can be. I have seen you in a completely different light. And you DARE lecture me about sympathy.

I would still ponder the need to list the figures.
Thy add nothing to the op.

It's like posting
'I was driving to work this morning and had a crash' rather than posting 'I was driving my Porsche to work this morning'

If the thread evolves, if advice becomes amount specific then add it. But it's not necessary so why put it in there?

This isn't about people earning lots of money and other people being insulted.

This isn't about people earning very little money and other people being smug.

This is about people who earn lots of money presenting luxuries as essentials and not recognising that the things they have to choose between are, for many people, absolutely pie in the sky, dream-world possibilities.

I have no objection to someone saying 'I earn 200k per year, would you hire a Nanny or have a child minder?'

I have no objection to someone saying 'I earn 300k per year, but if DD1 wants a horse she might have to sacrifice ballet because she already competes at national level in snowboarding and that costs a lot of money.'

I do have a problem with someone saying they feel 'poor' or 'middle income' because after many many luxuries are accounted for there are one or two more that may have to be sacrificed. The reason for this is because the poster has failed to realise that most of the things that are counted as 'essential budget items' are real luxuries, and most people are trying to decide which of the truly essential things they sacrifice.

And I guess I wonder if you would list your finances etc if you were talking about this at a school coffee morning or something?

I wouldn't roll off salary and holidays and cars in real life because it's crass. Don't you apply the same rules here?

Itemising amounts/possessions where they are directly relevant to the situation is reasonable. Posting a salary and possession for no particular reason seems gratuitous.

I am not trying to be argumentative. I am just struggling to understand why anyone feels limited from detailing genuine problems simply by virtue of being wealthy. It's not a problem I recognise.
I get the 'relative poverty' angle a bit but I don't get this.

@pag I think that generally people come on to a public forum to winge. ie nanny or childminder is unlikely to be a thread as if there is genuinely nothing in it other than money and they have money then it is not a problem.

The I need a nanny but can't afford one because of my massive London mortgage, despite my massive London salary is a more likely complaint and that seems to get people's backs up.

With due respect ethelb, no one knows your personal situation or your health problems and honestly they just arent relevant here. I have every sympathy but imo you should step away from this now. You are making it personal with Hully when Hully never made it personal with you.

You tried the same with me yesterday. Honestly, just step away. Take care of yourself. Use MN for support. But these threads are obviously getting to you.

Well said lougle.

Sure Ethel. I said ^ I can see that people have a problem with posting issues around relative wealth.

I am still not sure that in the vast majority of situations, listing large salaries etc is ever directly relevant.

I am the one that has been banging on about that and I did say

"If the thread evolves, if advice becomes amount specific then add it. But it's not necessary so why put it in there?"

Blimey no wonder Ol' Vincey boy cancelled.

@wannabe the health situation is relevant as I was accused of ignoring Hully. Which I didn't do on puprose due to the sitation outlined above. And the fact that I have seen her frequently lecturing people on MN about not considering the needs of people with complex needs is relevant.

And I was misquoted above and then singled out for 'ignoring' Hully in a way that was very unfair and I don't want to let it lie actually. I have never seen another poster accused of 'ignoring' someone before and it being used as an excuse to really witch hunt someone. I really, really haven't seen that on MN before.

People are making all kinds of sweeping judgements about people on MN generally at the moment, and it is becoming increasingly unacceptable so I challenged that. Saying I have no sympathy for anyone else was a horrible thing to say (and slightly ridiculous) and also has no relevance to this thread.

Im sorry if you thought I was trying to make it personal yesterday, I thought that was an interesting debate as we obviously have very different perspectives. I really didn't mean to upset you and I am happy to hand over some business advice if needed as I have a business in a similarish sector.

I think some people could be a little more sensitive. And some people could be a little less sensitive.

I havent started that thread because I havent a clue what I need to ask about. I have been thinking about and researching this on and off for months now but can never seem to get the courage up to go ahead and talk about it or put wheels in motion.

I hope your health improves. I just didnt see the nastiness in Hullys posts that you seemed to.

OP, I think you are right. Here's a few examples for Pagwatch, Hully and the other sceptics:

• anything to do with nannies. I remember a thread where lots of posters took issue with the fact that the OP referred to her nanny as "my nanny" or "the nanny". Total non-issue for anyone who is or has a nanny. It's not a shame FGS.

• anything to do with private primary school assessments. The 4+ and 7+ advice threads seem to be fair game for anyone who has a fundamental objection to private schools. By contrast, 11+ threads are okay, because grammar schools are free.

• the fact that there is no City/bankers/FS/compliance/lawyers quiche.

• there is generally a lack of understanding of the work pressure of being in a senior professional position. Much of the advice is completely unworkable when you are operating at that level.

• I think the fact that one poster is worried about sounding braggish (is that a word? probably not) for stating her THP of £1200 a month says it all. That's less than 15k a year - There are posters on here who make 10 times that, but of course they don't say it.

I quite wish that some posters would give it up when it comes to well-off bashing. I never post on benefits threads, because I don't have a shred of advice to give; so why do people who have no experience or intention of going through private school assessments, feel entitled to lecture on those threads?

Fundamentally though, the issue is not so much about income or wealth, as it is about wanting to be accepted by a group, and identifying with the perceived majority. So, for instance, you equally don't see any (or very few) posts by Russian/Polish/Chinese/Pakistani/Bangladeshi first generation immigrant mums. Being a first generation immigrant mum myself, although not from any of the afore-mentioned ethnic groups, I think it is probably to do with the fact that they don't recognise themselves on here, and don't think they will get valuable informed advice about their RL circumstances - and they are probably right. Mumsnet is terribly English, white, with a strong small-town/rural/non-London, lower class/lower middle class ethos, and generally a poor appreciation of the fact that some people's lives operate in a totally different set of circumstances.

On the one hand, it would be great if it were different. At the same time, I am learning loads about "English" society by the fact that mumsnet is so homogeneous, so maybe this is actually a good thing :)

@wannabedomesticgoddess she did make it personal when she asked why I had ignored her. Which pissed me off for obvious reasons. I could have continued to ignore her but didn't as I thought she deserved an explanation. She claimed I had no sympathy from a fairly innocous post (where I said "I didn't see why someone should have MORE sympathy than xxx" not NO sympathy btw).

Hully didn't do that to anyone else. Normally she accuses people in general of being nasty right wingers who don't understand the needs of others so it was a bit shocking to see her do it to one person.

However, I will take your points on board about my tone (seeming to make it personal etc) as I think I may have a skewed idea of what is the norm on MN.

• there is generally a lack of understanding of the work pressure of being in a senior professional position. Much of the advice is completely unworkable when you are operating at that level.

^ This was the point I was trying to make at the beginning of the thread. It is quite sad that there is so little mixing between the classes/professions and imo its why there is so much bitterness.

A squeezed middle topic?

Oh my. How very MN

I agree wholeheartedly with NoelHeadbands.

Primafacie
Thanks for giving examples just for me. I feel very special

I think you have listed a bunch of subjects that are difficult for many reasons. Mostly school assessment threads get difficult because of the state vs private thing don't they?
There are city meet ups. Why would they need a quiche - I met people at lunch to talk about my city based problems?
And most people said the that talking about money directly related to a financial based problem wouldn't be an issue for them.

I appreciate the examples you give. I just lack imagination I guess - I never find it a problem.

The only time I think I have been irritated is when people assume that money somehow means you have no problems and must automatically be happy which is of course nonsense.