To wonder why so many women are in denial about misogyny?

[seeker]

What do they get out of insisting that men are subject to exactly the same level of discrimination and abuse as women? That Mary Beard, for example, would have been treated in the same way if she had been a man?

I just don't get it.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

I've been deleted too, simply for replying to someone who claimed I said something I didn't.

[AnyFucker]

I don't think I will bother to scroll back to see if I/anyone else has been deleted.

[MurderOfGoths]

"it's rather sad that I'm a lone voice in the defence of men and boys, but hardly surprising, given that they don't count."

You aren't a lone voice.

I'm 100% in defence of men and boys, why wouldn't I be? I have a son, a husband, a brother, a dad, uncles, granddads, male cousins and male friends. Why wouldn't I defend them?

Saying that they have a generally easier life than my mother, my aunts, my nans, my female cousins and my female friends isn't the same as saying their life is easy.

I want everyone to be treated equally, have equal opportunities, and be free to be comfortable in their own skin.

Most feminist principles will help with that. Yes, even the men, shifting the balance further towards equality wont make life worse for the men. In fact it will probably make it better.

Equality would mean that my husband would be in a better position to do childcare (financially and socially). Equality would mean my son wouldn't be brought up with society telling him that there are things for boys and things for girls.

Denying that more men sexually assault women won't help either gender.
Denying that men, on the whole, are in a more privileged position won't help either gender.

We owe honesty to both genders.

[lemonmuffin]

Blimey. This is horrible. It really is.

Sigmund, at the risk of sounding like something out of Eastenders, it's not worth it love, really it's not.

you will not get any sense out of certain posters in this section. You can try till you're blue in the face but it will not work. Just take comfort in the fact that the vast majority of sane and sensible people out in the big wide world do not and never will agree with them.

Thank heavens.

[AnyFucker]

What precise "things" will the "rest of the world" never agree with, lemon ?

Tell us

[AnyFucker]

"This section" is AIBU

Did you realise that ?

[seeker]

I am just baffled. The deleting is positively Stalinist, but I'm going to ignore it.

Lemonmuffin, I really want to understand sigmunde, but I don't. I am quite prepared to accept that that is me, not her. Please could you try telling me what her point is?

[SnowLiviaMumsnet]

Oi - no faces thanks.
Peace and love and all that. [bgrin]

1 We don't think it's fair to discuss folks who no longer post on MN when they can't defend themselves
2 We do delete replies/duplicates of something that we have deleted
(Even the deletion message states that)

Oh and a reminder that AIBU is not a fight club.
Thanks again.

[AnyFucker]

S'funny, Olivia

Some folks appear to be under the impression this is FWR.

It's a rum do when people post things they would normally post in FWR and it looks worse than a typical AIBU goadfest

[ArmyOfPenguins]

zzzzz: They're feminist because they go against what patriarchal society deems appropriate for men. Kind, gentle, thoughtful, honest, nice etc.

Some men don't like to be called those things because they sound a bit 'wussy' to them.

[seeker]

"These are great sentiments/ideals but what makes them "feminist"???"

My point exactly!

[seeker]

Don't understand, zzzzzzzzzz

[MurderOfGoths]

I think the point being made is that the "feminist way" to raise boys is to treat them no differently to girls.

Asking the "feminist way" to raise boys makes little sense, as it suggests that you'd by raising them differently to girls.

[seeker]

If it was me you were quoting, I did say, after listing the wqy I am trying to raise my son, something like " just the way I am trying to raise my daughter"

[ArielThePiraticalMermaid]

I'm baffled as to how this thread could have reached 30 pages. Why is it so contentious? Mary Beard was treated shamefully by sexist, ignorant, misogynist cowards. And it's sadly not uncommon. How is that open to debate?


Anyway....

[MurderOfGoths]

"I suppose for me there are other more important things to worry about than misogyny, which I honestly rarely think about."

Problem is, for some people misogyny is a massive obstacle to living their lives. And even the things which seem inconsequential on their own can soon add up.

That's great that it doesn't affect your life enough for you to think about it. Thanks to things like feminism that is totally possible.

Personally, even if it doesn't directly affect me, I quite like to put time and effort into stopping things which affect others negatively.

Plus on a more personal note, it has and does affect me. Whether I want it or not I am reminded of it frequently. And I'm just as aware of the little things just chipping away as I am of the big things smashing their way through people's lives. Because they all add up to the same horrible situation.

And I'm also acutely aware of the things which are currently not good for the men in my life, and which feminism will actually help. Because feminism doesn't just improve women's lives, it benefits men too.