wft the barbie labiaplasty gone mad

[scrummummy]

this article in jezabel

jezebel.com/5977025/unhappy-with-your-gross-vagina-why-not-try-the-barbie

who in their right mind

[retrocutie]

Unhappiness with your bits is nothing new, I can remember being ashamed of mine as long ago as when I was in primary school. I always felt my bits were ugly and wanted them changed. This is years before the surgery was available. And no, I hadn't compared them with anything I had seen in a magazine, just my friends at school.

[JustAHolyFool]

It just makes me cringe, seriously.

I was once with a guy who said my vulva was a bit odd, because of the lips. I've never had a complaint or comment before or since, so I can only assume it's not odd. Either way, I'm happy with it so his comment didn't bother me.

It makes me mad that he said it though. Twat.

[Loquace]

Twat

Heh!

[BunFagFreddie]

The thing is, I never really see mine, so I don't worry about how it looks. I've given birth and I enjoy sex, so everything seems to be tickety boo. If a man complained about what it looked like, that would be the last he ever saw of it!

[Loquace]

Pretty much with you Bun

One strike and you're out.

Like that git who complained my boobs were too small.

Well you won't mind withdrawl of grope priveledges will you then, you berk!

Ditto the guy who said "it'll be like humping a bag of bones". Not that I'd even offered at that point.

How come it is the guys who are not exactly Davids themselves who feel so free to do body critique ? Projecting much?

[BunFagFreddie]

So true Loquace. Anyone would think they're god's gift the way some of them carry on. I've been out with some right charmers in my time. Saggy tits, funny shape, stringy, my arse is too small. I sound like a catch right?

[fluffyraggies]

Discussing this with DH. DH is mid 30s, all male work place.

His first reaction was 'Pah, it's all you women worrying about it, not the men! It's all in your minds.'

I asked specifically if he or his mates ever discuss women's bits in a derogatory way and he said yes, specially the younger ones - early 20s.

:(

I said so it's NOT all in our bloomin' minds then. Young boys have free and easy access to porn these days and are expecting to find women's bodies in RL to be the same ..... bla bla

Now he's all defensive saying most of it's all talk, after all men's bits are ugly as fuck, and it doesn't personally bother him what a girls bits look like as long as the bits are "clean and 'looked after'" - whatever that means!

Trimmed i guess. I've been trimming since my teens, so perhaps it's just a happy accident that my bits meet my DHs requirements. sigh.

It's all so sad. We've 3 DDs and i hope they never encounter the awful attitude of some of the young blokes out there (and older one's) in their lives.

[Iamsparklyknickers]

Love the last line of that article, sums up perfectly what women 'should' think about their genitals.

"Photoshopped images of "minimalist" vag that there's no such thing as a perfect vagina. Wait, scratch that: there is such a thing as a perfect vagina. It looks exactly like yours."

[Mia4]

Urgh to the nickname 'the barbie', why do so many think 'barbie' is perfect-perfect figure, hair...what's next? Nipples lopped off, because I don't remember Barbie having them!

LP for a medical reason needs to not be lumped into this debate (which some of the Jezebel comments seem to be doing, thankfully not MN), I remember seeing a poor 20 year old on embarrassing bodies who hadn't been allowed a referral. One lip was largish, the other much larger (double size!) and very obviously different but the real issue was the sores on the larger one from rubbing and catching and the amount of times she's 'split' that lip because of the friction. Her LP didn't reduce the largist labia, just brought the other in line with it, meaning no friction and pain, especially during sex.

I remember how pleased my sister and I was when we were watching the 'sex education show' on channel 4. They dispelled the 'perfect vagina' myth by showing portraits and photos of many different types which really surprised the kids and made the girls seem a lot more relieved- hey all said they felt more normal-and the boys were surprised at the variation but it showed them there's no 'perfect vaj' either and you couldn't judge. They did the opposie with cocks and the results were flipped- boys relieved, girls surprised and realising there's no 'perfect cock'.

Personally i think Sex Ed should show teens people are all different, that they'res no normal or thing to aspire to but that we are all unique and awesome.

[confusteling]

All this is not really common though.When I had mine done the dr said he didnt really see many people who have had it done unless there is a medical reason.Also its not like in rl anyone knows anyone whos had their bum bleached.

This, exactly. Of all the people I had seen, my GP had only ever had one other patient who had a similar operation - and she's been working for over 20 years, in more than one continent.. Surgeon had very little experience of it - as had her colleague from London; both said they were "nervous" as it wasn't something they were used to except in cases of vulvar cancer. None of the nurses had ever seen such a thing before. The nurse and the midwife who provided my aftercare had never seen anything like it - they were relying on their midwifery experience to know what to do, and they said even that wasn't really helpful as it's very rare for anyone to have stitches through their clitoral area!

It can't be half as common as the media make it out to be, certainly not in the NHS anyway. I remember an outraged DM article that this operation was available at all - as people were getting it on the NHS - but it really is something they will only do for medical problems and it's very much a last resort. Rightly so, as it's not an easy surgery to go through and not one without potentially awful side effects (loss of functioning, loss of a natural appearance, dramatic changes in skin colour and texture, chronic nerve pain, numbness).

I've worked with young teens on such issues before, and have googled, the amount of people who think they aren't "normal" is really sad to be honest. You don't even need to have watched porn or anything - I showed a friend when I was eleven and I remember her laughing and asking why I looked so weird. Granted in my case it was very obviously abnormal (for instance, I've looked at vulval photos and have never seen one matching what I had, the only times I have is through medical journals!!) but this doesn't seem to be uncommon. I really think that as part of sex education girls and boys should be shown images of genitalia and the various differences that can occur.

But to be honest as long as cosmetic surgery is legal these things are going to happen, sadly.

[Xales]

Well to be honest. I have considered this. I regret not doing it when I was younger everytime they get caught by my knicker elastic and pulled it is painful.

I then have to find somewhere to get them out as I can imagine the comments if I tried to adjust parts down there in the middle of the shopping mall so have to walk trying not pull them more.

[confusteling]

Xales

Have you discussed it with a GP or someone similar - family planning clinics and the like are often very good for advice? I used to have the same issues and had to charge off to shop changing rooms if I couldn't find a public loo. Worst was if I couldn't sort it for ages (e.g. in class at school) because I'd end up bleeding.

GP might be able to prescribe you something to keep the skin moisturised and a bit softer, I was prescribed aqueous cream/50 50 emollient and a shower wash to keep the area a bit softer. Did help as it wasn't so dry and not so likely to get sore. Someone suggested using KY gel too.

The other thing that can help is wearing bigger knickers (supermarkets are good for big granny pants!) and looking for ones without fancy seams (I will never forget the first time I wore lacy knicks and my mum had to cut them off with scissors!) as there's less to irritate the skin.

I did work out when I was about thirteen that if I bent down, in a certain way, gravity naturally allowed everything to fall back into place which helped but people must have wondered why I was forever crouching down...

[IfAtFirstUDontSucceed]

After reading this thread I discovered that my human biology wasn't up to scratch and that there we posess two different types of labia. So I googled labia minora expecting to find an array of anatomical diagrams showing me what the difference was. Except, I was given lots of before and after photographs which says to me that this is perhaps a lot more common than we realise!

Again

[Loquace]

Well to be honest. I have considered this.

But I think there is a massive difference between having it done for the reasons why it was invented, (discomfort, damage due to accident or childbirth) and "asthetics conformation" for your average woman.

The same way that breast reduction/enlargement has it's place where pain, discomfort, breast loss, extreme lack asymetrical size, notable sagging at a young age are issues.

But the idea that we need boobies blown up to a certain cup size and required "bounceyness" or vulvas conforming to a certain degree of "tidyness"...that is an issue.

The docs I think are promoting the idea with an eye on improving their income stream. Some, probably in America will go all "ahead of a trend" on it, and then it will seep into the general idea of normal and then spread to europe etc.

Just like the vajazzle and "attack of the weed whacker" on pubes did.

Sticking glitter and sequins on your baldy muff isn't a big deal in the bog scheme ofmthings I guess. But if it is part of a bigger picture that demands conformity and "prettying up" of women's genitals, then it is a bit more worrying.

I'm going to dig out a link to that "art" plastercast display of lots of vaginas and save it somehwere safe to have it at the ready for when boyo is a big boy, just so he has something normal to compare to the messages he is possibly going to be hearing. I don't want him inadvertantly becoming part of a new wave of squashing women via thier knicker and bra contents.

Damn it. This should not be part of my job as a mother of a boy.

Fucking "elective and unnessary focused" plastic surgoens and their insatiable greed for Gucci.

[ILikeBirds]

Educating people on the range of normal variation is great, but this includes not dismissing what is normal for some as 'unnatural' or 'prepubescent' or somehow not a real women. Some people have longer labia others have very small inner labia, neither is 'better'

I remember teenage friends discussing pubic hair removal and the argument being made that it didn't make women look like children genitals were obviously that of a women and not a girl. I worried that I wasn't normal because only my outer labia were visible.

Diversity is great, the problem is the idea that there is an ideal, not what that ideal is.

[Loquace]

edit requied

But the idea that we need boobies blown up to a certain cup size and required "bounceyness" or vulvas conforming to a certain degree of "tidyness" as a matter of course, accross the board ..that is an issue.

[Loquace]

problem is the idea that there is an ideal, not what that ideal is

That.

It is the squahingness of trying to squeeze all,women into a tiny corner of variation that is the issue. It's not like an op to inject sillicone implants into labia to give an idealized "plumpness" would be any better.

Just get them off our tits and bits !

[BunFagFreddie]

Yes, and while we're at it, can we add "Sorry, but size DOES matter" to the placard?

[Loquace]

but size DOES matter" to the placard?

Actually, seeing how pube weed whacking, glitter, and scrotum lifting is making in roads, plus the amount of porn younger people are being exposed to, I think we may even need a "penises in all their various glories" may be needed before long.

Plastic surgoens do seem to looking at the potential male market for ways to make even more koney. They have honed their skills so well on making women feel indequate that I wouldn't put it past them to expose a whole generation of young men to the same kind of evil brainswashing that females have long been knocked about by.

Aided and abetted by an ever more morally reprehensible media seeking page hits and viewing numbers in a crowded market.

So "hands off our tits, bits, pecs, balls and dicks" might be in order on the placard.

I will need a considerably bigger placard

[Loquace]

oh FFS, English is my first language ......offically

Actually, seeing how pube weed whacking, glitter, and scrotum lifting is making in roads with blokes, plus the amount of porn younger people are being exposed to, I think we may even need a "penises in all their various glories" exhibition before long.

There that's better.

[countrykitten]

Bit worried if someone thinks that their vulva is 'self cleaning'. Vagina is but you do need to wash your outside bits.

[Loquace]

The self cleaning I think referres to the lack of need to "douche".

Especially with things like vingar and bleach solutions

[Somebodysomewhere]

Ive had a male friend mention he didnt like larger labia on women. He wanted me to date him. This was one of several reason i declined.

Incidentally i have fairly small labia which i thought was thew norm until i saw those photos which is interesting. I also think vaginas are not very nice looking. (except my own ofcourse Neither are penises come to that. Is that weird ?

As a side point i have never met a woman under 25 who did not shave in someway. I have to say i do dislike unshaven and even prefer less hairy men. But im not sure if it is related to society or what because i dont like to take it all off completely and would never ever consider a vajazzle or whatever its called.

[Birdsgottafly]

I am around teenagers and less informed/younger people a lot and this is starting to become an insult.

The term "wizards sleeve" is starting to get replaced with baggy/saggy piss flaps and also hints about it being linked to being "a slag".

Unfortunately because the girls are not confident they usually laugh along. It is also inferred that the number of partners a girl has can changed the smell "down there".

My 17 year old and her friends have got into some very nasty arguements on FB and in RL when this is used by a young lad, as a means of humiliation to an ex, or even a girl who has rejected him.

Unfortuately this is going to be as wanted as much as hair extensions and teeth whitening, by some sections of society.

[Darkesteyes]

Somebody you have reminded me of something. My ex OM used to shave his chest when i first met him. Because a woman that he previously liked (they didnt even have a relationship) didnt like hairy chests.
I told him it really didnt bother me at all. Because it doesnt. So he let it grow back.
Birds good on your DD and her mates for standing up to it. Have they ever seen the vagendamagblogspot.com. I think thats the right web address. They are also on Twitter.