AIBU to just not like nurseries very much?

[HardlyEverHoovers]

Before I had my own child I occasionally had to spend some time in nurseries as part of my studies etc, this made me decide I didn't want to work with children, NOT because I don't like the kids but because I don't really like the environment. Thought I might feel differently with my own BUT went to visit a nursery yesterday, thought this would be the one, lots of likeminded friends love it and send their kids there, but just came out feeling completely uninspired.
It's a general feeling of discomfort but here are some specifics:
They said they would 'assess' my 2 year old, is this really necessary?
They seem to be trying to impose structure on children who are too young to understand it and they just look totally mystified.
They write down virtually everything they do which seems a bit uneccessary.
They showed me the toilet/changing area and it occurred to me that DS would be having his nappy changed by someone other than me or his dad and that makes me uncomfortable.

Am I missing something? Is there a sort of nursery I could try and find which is a bit more 'free range'? I love the idea of forest nurserys where the kids are outside all the time but I can't find any near us.

Thankfully we don't need to send him as at least one of us is at home all day, but just wondering why I feel like this when most people seem to think it's a good thing.

p.s. really really no offence to nursery staff who I know are very skilled, love kids and have mountains of patience.

of course Bonsoir. you are fully entitled to want to be in control of everything that leaks out of your child! We can agree to disagree on that, you are not demanding I parent your way.

But these people who say 'I don't agree with so and so for any child' - they are effectively attacking those who parent differently. those who don't do it their way are subject to their disapprobation.

Fine if that is based on clear evidence for eg not beating your child with a big stick. Not so fine in other areas which depend on massive amount of variables, personality of the child, quality of child care provision etc.

note brllliant way I have bowed out here.

Which I am sure they do based on the best evidence they can get and their wish to do right by their child in the particular circs they have. that's why I recommended Affluenza, you may feel that your circumstances have left you with no 'choice' but this book is concerned with the population in general, it is not a critical biography of an individual.

Quote Easilybored'''There is no better care than that of a mother'

What an utter pile of flaming bullshit.''

I beg to differ. You are deluding yourself if you think anyone cares about your child more than you (the person who gave birth) the Mother.
I was involved in voluntary run Playgroups and know how hard it was to motivate paid staff and I am talking a 2 1/2 hours 3 times a week playgroup.
I think everyone should do what works best for their family. Some people have no choice, you do scupper your career if you become a SAHM in many cases; but any pre-verbal child (if able to give its opinion) would likely rather spend the day in the care of someone with a vested emotional interest.

"Why on earth do your preferences deserve such elevation?"

What elevation?

The giddy heights of me believing them and discussing them on a thread on which I don't even have the rank of OP?

People make decisions for their families all the time based on what they think works best for children.

You can insist they put the word "my" in every sentence, but it's bullshit.

That's not what they really mean.

People who do attachment parenting, or baby led weaning, or co-sleeping think those decisions are best.

There might be some parents who don't make any decisions based on their preferences and beliefs and prejudices, but wait until they can tell what the child wants.

But even those parents will be informed by their experiences and personality.

I don't think nursery is great for babies or toddlers. So I choose other childcare.

If I had to choose between nursery and not working, I'd choose nursery.

But I prefer my children to be cared for in a home environment by a CM because that's what I think is best.

Other people disagree and think I am leaving them vulnerable to abuse.

Which is a reasonable point, but that's the risk I take to avoid what I consider to be the more likely drawbacks of institutional care for babies and toddlers.

If there is no reason to feel guilty about using childcare (and there is not) then there is no reason to disallow talking in general terms about what works best.

I feel very fortunate that my DD goes to an outdoor nursery, she loves it!!! they still document learning journeys etc but I do feel it is less formal than more traditional nursery settings.

Enlarging the debate somewhat: in general, I am not keen on for-profit chains in the care and education businesses. I'm not sure that scale works in these businesses...

I short, Hoovers: YANBU. I hate the places.

The OP is talking about a part time nursery place for a TWO year old, in the context of being overwhelmingly cared for by parents. I think some of the anti nursery people need to calm down a tad.

If my DS didn't enjoy nursery I wouldn't send him. He is 23 months and a non stop chatterbox, as it is he still asks to go back to his old one when we are at home (unfortunately he had to leave due to DH changing jobs) and misses his friends and the staff (the children all call the manager Nanny X and she genuinely behaves like an extra grandparent). For us a balance of family and nursery is perfect.

Whoever said Noone loves your child like the person who gave birth to them, try telling that to fathers, adoptive parents etc.

I disagree very strongly that OJ speaks to the population at large. He writes based on the enormous assumption of his own privilege and dripping from every line, in so far as I can see, is the view that working mothers are selfish and doing it for material gain. So I say fuck you OJ and wake up to the real world where it is a lot more complicated and multifaceted.

Athing - let me try an analogy. Someone has got cancer. You really believe, based on no evidence, just your own preferences, because you once had an uncle who got cancer that a raw food diet will work wonders. So you tell the cancer patient - I don't agree with chemotherapy. What nonsense. All cancer patients should be eating cruciferous vegetables.

Do you see where I am coming from? Of course parents who love co sleeping/Gina Ford believe their way is the best but my patience with their proselytising stops once they step over the threshold of their own homes. Best for your child, I can't argue with that. Best for eveyone elses? Based on no evidence other than your own 'preference'? no way.

ukatlast well, I guess I had better not leave him with my husband then?!

Seriously, what an emotive bit of crap to spout. I love my son, of course, but if I stayed home with him full time I would go utterly and completely batshit crazy. I am not SAHM material. He is far far far better off in the care of trained professionals than he would be if he was at home with me full time. They do activities with him that I would never even consider doing. They have boundless energy and enthusiasm and don't get fed up because they actually just want to sit and watch the newest episode of Greys while drinking tea and not build flippin block towers for the 1000000 time that day. DS goes happily into the arms of the nursery workers each morning, and is full of smiles. I'm not deluding myself that they love him in the same way I do, but the care they give him is second to none. You do not have to love someone to provide them with a caring, stimulating, safe, fun environment.

Spero - while I think everyone is entitled to their own opinion as to what is best for their child (though I may disagree ), I don't think your chemotherapy vs. cruciferous vegetable therapy analogy holds up.

Bonsoir I agree. I think our two excellent nurseries have been so great (and reasonable!) in large part because neither is for-profit. (one workplace nursery, one parent run co-operative).

Well that is your opinion and I respectly admit you are entitled to it. I however, think it is bang on point.

Also, since there is no way of really knowing what a pre-verbal child would prefer, I would argue that you are talking out of your arse on that one. DS would rather spend the day with whoever would give him the most chocolate buttons and cuddles or let him bash the cat with his bricks or many many other things that change every 30 seconds. Toddlers are fickle heartbreakers. He's happy cuddling mummy until daddy arrives, then 10 minutes later he wants mummy, then daddy again, then the poor cat, then gran and on and on.

I send my SS because he loves it. My experience of nurseries are that they are quite free range, such as at my dd2 s nursery they are free to go in and out of all the rooms or outside and just have ten mins carpet time reading a story at the end. She is four. They also have adult led activities which the children are free to join or not. The ethos is about child I initiated learning and learning through play, talking to the kids while they play etc. the assessment is required by local authority, but is not formal. The kids just have two or three aims a term, such as playing more with others, concentrating on sharing, playing more with play dough or fine motor skills stuff, holding a pencil, joining in with singing, so on, nothing strenuous.

My ds nursery is a bit more structured, as in they have a snack time in middle of afternoon, and an extra carpet time, but again he is free to join in or not.

Posting limited due to trying to multitask/on phone but I agree with Spero and Loquace.

Re OJ, he is an idiot.

I work for the same reasons my DH does - sense of vocation, intellectual stimulation, wish to contribute to wider society, to put a (small and in need of DIY) roof over our head, to provide a positive role model to DS and a multitude of other things. The idea of working to buy myself designer goods or posh holidays is so far from our reality it is simply laughable. The absolute basics are a struggle most months.

I am all for "assessing." It's very helpful to have someone who sees scores of kids over the years notice that your child is having a difficulty with something. I have two boys with speech delays. My first child was a precocious speaker (full sentences before 2 years old, and a very large vocabulary.) So, when my younger ones were delayed, I had no idea what "normal" was. It helps so much to have a professional note things about speech and motor skills.

Both of my boys got speech therapy and that ball was started rolling by nursery staff.

"my patience with their proselytising stops once they step over the threshold of their own homes."

So you are against the very idea of Mumsnet?

You don't think people should talk in general terms about parenting and what they believe works best?

What kind of discussion can be had about anything related to parenting if talking in general terms is disallowed?

And BTW, I'm sure you know that there is a difference between "this is what I think is best for children generally" and "this is how it must be for ALL children."

You can disagree about what is best for children without believing other people are bad parents because they disagree.

I disagree very much with what you say about crucifers us vegetables.

People should not be prevented from holding, or discussing, views about vegetables curing cancer.

Sorry it is obviously my fault for not being clear.

There is a big distinction between - this is what worked best for my child. I think the reasons for this were a, b, and c.

And: this is what works best for all children. I don't have any evidence for this, but it is what I believe.

if you don't understand that distinction I am at a loss how to put it any better.

Am I missing something, but I though that child minders also had to follow the EY stuff and also assess DCs in their care. I know most CM have folders of forms etc.

Or is the OP really talking about pre-school rather than nursery as childcare option?

If you are thinking of pre-school, re the nappy changing, many pre-school only nurseries (rather than ones that will take from 4 months) won't take DCs who aren't dry. Most that are attached to private schools for instance, take DCs from 2.5years old but they have to be dry.

I also found when looking for nursery as childcare options for DS, there is a massive difference between different nurseries, somethings can't be done well on the cheap.

When I was choosing child are for my children, I didn't like (still don't) the thought of a childminder and leaving my children there. I couldn't explain why that was, I just didn't feel comfortable with the idea of them with one person the whole time. My MIL (who was a nursery nurse) ) made a comment one day about having to leave the room as she needed to have 5 mins away from a difficult child and getting one of the other nursery staff to cover her. I think that this was the reason that I couldn't square it in my own mind-if a cm is having a bad day, what does she do?

However, what arrangements people make for their children depends on them and their circumstances. My children thrived in nursery and since at school-maybe we have been very lucky in our choice of care, but it suited us.

Op if you don't like the nappy thing, send him when he's 3 - he will probably be able to use the toilet on his own. Another adv of him being 3 is that he will have far more speech and benefit more from interacting with other kids in a more meaningful way.

DC1 went to nursery when I returned to work.

I briefly considered a CM but I visited a few (and I'll get flamed for this I know) my impression was it was all about the money, they all lived in slightly dodgy areas in cramped houses and it very much seemed a means to an end. The joy of inner city childcare perhaps?

I decided I liked the more regulated environment of a nursery although out of the four I viewed the one she went to was the only one I was happy sending her to.

Once DC2 came along a nanny was a better option and that is what we now have for DC4.

I think some DC thrive in nursery settings and I imagine others don't. I also suspect the difference between good and bad is vast

I am with you, princess.

I consciously choose nursery over a home-based setting because of the checks and balances that many hands to the pump at a nursery can provide, both for the benefit of my dcs (who have more likely to find their preferred carer out of a number of staff) as well as staff (who get little breaks from time to time).

Most importantly, my dcs are not left for long periods in the sole care of one person.

Nursery seemed to suit them, so I can hardly work up a sweat about a group setting. Plus the carers were lovely.

I understand the distinction.

But there are other possible statements.

For one thing "this is what worked best for my child" is in the past tense as well as being specific.

What about people who are experiencing childcare in the present tense, or planning for it in the future tense?

The latter group only have their own preferences, beliefs and feelings to go on.

Now you can be a pain in the arse and insist that they are only allowed to talk in specific terms about what is best for their own child.

But really, unless their child has very specific needs, what they are deciding is what is best for children (in general) because that is what they want to provide for their own child.

There is no reason to get in a strop because there are many views on how children should be raised.