AIBU to just not like nurseries very much?

[HardlyEverHoovers]

Before I had my own child I occasionally had to spend some time in nurseries as part of my studies etc, this made me decide I didn't want to work with children, NOT because I don't like the kids but because I don't really like the environment. Thought I might feel differently with my own BUT went to visit a nursery yesterday, thought this would be the one, lots of likeminded friends love it and send their kids there, but just came out feeling completely uninspired.
It's a general feeling of discomfort but here are some specifics:
They said they would 'assess' my 2 year old, is this really necessary?
They seem to be trying to impose structure on children who are too young to understand it and they just look totally mystified.
They write down virtually everything they do which seems a bit uneccessary.
They showed me the toilet/changing area and it occurred to me that DS would be having his nappy changed by someone other than me or his dad and that makes me uncomfortable.

Am I missing something? Is there a sort of nursery I could try and find which is a bit more 'free range'? I love the idea of forest nurserys where the kids are outside all the time but I can't find any near us.

Thankfully we don't need to send him as at least one of us is at home all day, but just wondering why I feel like this when most people seem to think it's a good thing.

p.s. really really no offence to nursery staff who I know are very skilled, love kids and have mountains of patience.

My DCs have been very happy at nursery. I found nurseries I liked. The kids seemed to have fun there and were well looked after. They learned quite a bit too. I don't know what more you need, really. It's natural to Obsessively over think the whole issue with your first, though. Also natural to continuously reassess the situation to get if right. Good luck.

Yup, agree there are some rather odd stereotypes of HE-ers, Loquace! It is always worth pointing out it isn't just for extreme eccentrics...

DS's village preschool takes children from 2.6. He started going unofficially at about 2yo with his CM, who volunteers there. He adored it from the start.

It's an Ofsted Outstanding preschool, which I know doesn't always mean much but clearly means that they do all the EY assessment stuff as directed. But if you ask DS what he did at preschool today he'll say 'Played!' that's it as far as he's concerned. He doesn't know he's being assessed, he's just playing with his friends and his lovely keyworker. Sometimes this is indoors, this week they have played outside every day in the snow and cold.

FWIW when I went back to work when DS was a year old DH and I felt that a CM would provide a more nurturing environment for him than a nursery setting, but he's a lot keener on going to preschool than he has ever been about going to his CM. His CM is lovely, just not as much fun I think. He's so much keener, in fact, that we're considering removing him from the CM and sending him to preschool every day and the after hours club three days a week as well. Once I would have thought that would be grossly unfair on DS at such a young age still, but I'm certain he would actually be happier.

It's not just preschool vs CM either. At weekends he asks if he's going to preschool today and we've had tears when we've told him he's not going again for two days. He would clearly rather go there than stay at home with us!

Obviously if you're not comfortable with someone else changing your DC's nappy there's not a lot you can do about that, apart from wait until they're toilet-trained.

It doesn't benefit children

That's crap. It might not benefit some kids, they may even be the majority (but you'd need solid data to support that before presenting it as fact).

But it did suit my kid, down to the ground. He has loved being in a group of kids from the time he got the chance right up to now. Henthrived there. They were much better than me at potty training. They were better than me about not babying him and sub conciously thwarting his babysteps into less dependance. They were less "all about this one kid" focused and didn't crumple and interfer in the face of him struggling and getting frustrated when learning new skills and abilites he wanted to aquire.

It was brill for him. Harder for me, cos I really wanted to find fault with the place to have justification to throw in the towel and not have to deal with the difficulty for me of seperation, but damn it, they just wouldn't provide anything but the occasional nitpick, that was more me over egging a debatable point than them doing anything "wrong".

I was a registered CM (and am planning to register again now settled in new country!) so you might think I am all for CMs. Finding the right people to look after your precious child is not just a practical choice, it's an emotional and visceral one as well. No one knows your child like you do, and only you can judge where your child is going to be happiest. For some that will be in the home from home atmosphere of a CM, for others it will be the larger setting of a nursery, for yet others something in between suits.

I see no need for the great childcare debate. If a body is happy with where their child goes to be cared for, then that is their ideal. Not every child is suited to every setting, and you have to do whatever you believe to be right with your child.

I have worked in a great deal of nursery settings whilst at university and did placements in a few whilst at college.

I personally do not like the day nursery setup as a whole BUT did actually work in one which I would have been happy to send my children to as it was lovely still had one or two miserable cows there but such is life!

I do think that a good nursery can provide opportunities that I, as a SAHM, struggle to do. But you need to shop around if possible and find one that works for you and your child as they can vary greatly in my experience!

Surely no-one really knows if the atmosphere totally changes as soon as the parents leave at a CMs either? I have seen some bloody awful CMs at toddler groups, but I don't assume they are all crap. It's just the horrible ones stand out

Yes, I have met a few dire nannies too! But some lovely ones as well, who I think were a godsend to their employers.

Ds' nursery is great. Only for 2 and older, and now he is three it's good for him to go a couple of times a week.

It looks lovely, the staff seem great, loving. Of course you can't be there and not there to assess what happens after you go. But I do trust it.

Surely no-one really knows if the atmosphere totally changes as soon as the parents leave

Well not with webcams and a live feed.

It is true of any setting really, including a parental/family based one when family and other parent all walk out the door.

I don't think some parents have any idea how their beloved kids are treated by the nonni once their backs are turned.

I've also seen kids not getting the best possible deal where the parent was evidently at the end of their tether with fulltime childcare. Possibly a nursey would give both enough of a break to improve their interaction.

Amber, as for the Steiner school and their attitude to elves and fairies, ds seems to currently believe in Santa, the Easter Bunny, Jack Frost, Spiderman, Fireman Sam and mutant ninja turtles. I didn't think adding elves and fairies into the mix would do any harm

as for the Steiner school and their attitude to elves and fairies

I was thinking less about the elves and stuff, and more about the OP's dislike of assessment. How would she feel about her kid being observed so s/he could be "typed".

I think in terms of assessment that is a lot harded to get past than "Little Jonny seems to be interested in starting potty training"

I don't think the attitude "they are going to have to get over it" is a healthy one when it comes to examining which intimate family tasks one feels uneasy outsourcing. I think that the outsourcing of family life ought to be scrutinised much harder - there is a lot of throwing the baby out with the bathwater going on

Please explain further bonsoir - because if you return to work and dont have family to or who wants to watch your baby then regardless of choosing nursery, cm etc they will have to change a babys nappy. Are you saying because I went back to work and did this (in the past) I was "outsourcing family life"? I dislike the implication from your posts that you dont want "strangers" changing your childs nappy if this includes childcare professionals, either at nursery or a cm. There is something inherently wrong about that - what on earth do you think staff are going to do? Boy you would love my DH - who is a fantastic male childminder! Thank god his parents dont think like you do otherwise he wouldnt be very busy, hes got 4 mindees who are still in nappies presently.

I was lucky that my sister worked at the first nursery DS went to, one of her friends works at the one he is at now. Both send their own children to that setting which I think speaks volumes.

You never know what goes on when parents have left BUT in a childminder it is often one adult with nobody watching, in a nursery there are other adults who would hopefully pick up on and question bad practice.

YANBU to not want to put your 2 year old in a nursery. I can understand a general feeling of discomfort as different people feel comfortable with different things.
I do find your specific reasons a little naive/ odd though.

If you are at all familiar with the Early Years Foundation or had asked the nursery about it, you would know that a huge amount of paper work is imposed on child carers. Assessing a 2 or 3 year old would be part of this. On occasion, nursery staff are very helpful in picking up on developmental issues in individual children.
I don't know why it wouldn't have occurred to you that your DS would have his nappy changed by someone other than a parent whilst at nursery. That seems fairly obvious. I find it a little odd that some parents regard this as strange. Are you trying to imply something unpleasant or are you naturally suspicious? A nursery work has training or, at the v least, experience of working with small children. Changing a nappy is part of their job. They are not 'strangers' that you have plucked off the street. They are professional staff in a childcare setting that you talk to and get to know over a period of time.
Would the same logic re intimate tasks also apply to staff in a care home washing/ dressing/ changing nappies for an elderly/ disabled person or someone with dementia? Should this always be done be immediate family also?

"Why does this issue have to be framed as 'I don't think it benefits children'. Why can't you just say 'I don't think it would have benefitted my child' ?"

Because that's not what I think.

I don't believe institutional childcare is good for children under about 3.

I'm not an expert, that's just my preference.

But it's not a changing preference, it's what I believed before I had any children, and it's what I continue to believe now that I have 3 children.

Other people have other reasons to prefer nurseries. That's up to them.

I find the idea that we're not allowed to talk about what we want from childcare extremely stultifying, and your attempt to disallow any general statements is part of that.

I think the important thing is that we all find the right solution for us.

I was very uneasy about CMs for no more reason than they were on their own. I saw the advantage of a nursery being that there were just a few more pairs of eyes, someone to cover if you needed to go to the loo for example. My DS was angelic until your back was turned and it was a worry. Totally unfounded tbh

sugarandspiced, yes I think naive is the right word, not sure about odd, maybe!
I did know of course that someone would be changing his nappy, and if I had sat down and thought about it I also know enough to realise that childcare means paperwork.
However, I don't think I had particularly thought about that being applied to my child before I got in the place and saw it all. Had just been happily thinking how nice it would be, and we were moving onto the next stage with him etc etc.
My nappy changing concerns are not to do with thinking he is in any danger, and it wouldn't make any difference if it was a man or a woman. I think it's just the intimacy of it, made worse by the fact that DS has an issue down there that means we have to do something more intimate than normal to him everytime we change him.
He is not talking as yet so I think I'll review the situation in a few months, I might well feel differently about it when he can communicate better.

Get hold of a copy of Affluenza, this is a difficult subject to discuss in real life but this might help you confirm your gut feeling. I found it very comforting.

So you have three children and now you speak for ALL children?

this is what annoys me. 'i'm not an expert, this is just my preference'.

do you honestly not understand why this is such a silly, crass thing to say? what on earth do you know about my child, what has benefitted my child? or anyone else's child outside your family? Why on earth do your preferences deserve such elevation?

I am not remotely trying to end debate. What I am trying to do is stop people who had one bad experience with one nursery that their particular child didn't like, trying to speak for all children in all environments. that is ridiculous and quite dangerous.

I don't push my irrational prejudices onto other people. I don't generalise wildly beyond my own experiences.

i wouldn't dream of making sweeping statements like - people who don't like other people changing their children's nappies are precious mimsy idiots. I'm not an expert on that, just my opinion.

Well, opinions are like arseholes aren't they? everyone's got one.

I'm with Spero.

Everybody is entitled to their own opinion. But they are not entitled to their facts.

When by one's own admission actual knowledge and data are seriously lacking, it makes no sense at all to make a generalised sweeping statement balanaced on nothing more substantial than a sandy foundation called "cos I think so".

It naturally enough gets peoples' backs up.

Research has actually shown that unless in full time at a young age childcare can be beneficial to a child. However, it is very hard to conduct anything like accurate research as their are so many confounding variables

sorry for intemperate tone, i am getting cross now, especially as bloody Affluenza is being trotted out.

I don't work and bang my child up in nursery because I am a greedy materialist, I work because otherwise I am on benefits as a single parent. I chose a nursery because I thought it was the best environment with more scope for stimulation than a child minder. My decision for my child. Everyone else is free to make their own decisions. Which I am sure they do based on the best evidence they can get and their wish to do right by their child in the particular circs they have.

This is clearly pushing my buttons so I had better bow out. But unless you have qualifications, experience and research in a field, beyond your own progeny I just don't get why anyone thinks they can make sweeping pronoucements for all children.

The only valid comparison is between the care a particular child would get in its own particular home and the the care that same child would receive in a particular care setting.

Nevertheless, some parents (myself included) are very squeamish about outsourcing intimate tasks, which makes any sort of childcare fairly distasteful. Others don't mind, which is fine. We all have a right to our opinion.

especially as bloody Affluenza is being trotted out

Yet another bloody professional (potentially/alledgely etc.) making a mint by being "controversial" and spouting psycobabble by any chance ?

Great. Fabulous.

So can I cross off Spirtuality, Nobel Savage, unproven therory style FACTS! before I even start digging ?