Help - found bank letter re challenging over 1k spend in gentlemans club

[Letstryagain]

Looked in h pocket when moving jackets and found a bank letter re his challenge over 1k spend in 'gentlemans' club - looked at dates and it was a weekend I was away, he was out but never mentioned going there. I have no issues with these places but wonder why he didn't say he was there & also how could anyone spend over 1,000 at a place like that? What do I do - say I saw it? Am raging? He had told me he was disputing a spend in debenhams!! Help!!!

Back to the OP's question - 'what do I do?'

I'd be tempted to ask a few awkward questions about the Debenhams dispute and watch him squirm. 'Hows the dispute going? How much was it? How do you think that happened?' Etc. he'll either come clean or dig himself into a bigger hole.

Did this 'present' ever materialise?

Ok crawling, but what I am saying about the women who work in these clubs are from talking to them. I worked at the club 5/6 nights a week for 7 hours for about a year and a half. As in any job the more time you spend with co-workers the more you know them

I appreciate there may be academic research done but more often enough that is about sex workers rather than strippers. as you rightly point out there is a huge link between prostitution and being the victim of sexual abuse but there is also a huge difference between those vunerable women and women who work in strip clubs

So research it. Look into it or are you scared of what you may find? Just because you knew the women well doesnt rule abuse out only 4 people know I was abused me the person my mum and my dp.You wouldn't know to look at me and friends don't know I would never tell a co worker so you having worked with these girls really doesnt rule abuse out Im sorry

I think its a bit silly to believe these girls are not victims because you worked with them I don't know any abuse victim who brings it up over the coffee break at work.

I also find it seedy degrading and pathetic a little weedy so cant respect a man who visits these places.

The above comment was in regard to a man visiting these places btw.

Ok so say some of the women who work in OP's 'Gentlemen's Club' are as you describe, perfectly happy to be there, middle-class students paying their way through Uni, all lovely and everyone's happy (although let's hope they're not studying gender studies, eh?).

What about the rest of them? Sexually abused? Trafficked? Pimped? In an abusive relationship making money to fund their 'partner's' habits?

What percentage split are you comfortable with? 50% 'totes fine' and 50% 'forced'? 75/25? Or how about none. The only way to ensure the money you spend in a lapdancing club does not directly fund the exploitation of women is not to spend any in the first place.

What I sometimes think is even worse than the clubs being the thin edge of hideous wedge is the veneer of respectability they provide, so that otherwise perfectly sensible 'normal' people you'd be happy to go down the pub with on a Friday night, people like some of the people on this thread, think that lapdancing clubs are fine. They are not. They are the marketable side of a horrible, horrible abusive industry and even if people make an active choice to work there, that doesn't actually make the industry OK.

as long as we can draw a line between prostitution and strip clubs then fine- in terms of women trafficked in the two clubs I worked at? None. A big fat zero. I know that goes against the point you are trying to make but it was that simple.

With regard you other points. It is THEIR choice to work there. No one elses. If its the choice between earning minimum wage slogging you arse off in a factory on a zero hours contract or making sometimes £500 a night, I know the option I would pick. I dont think its fair for other people to dictate someones line of work to suit their own political agenda

Come back when you have researched it. Also prostitution is relevant as it is a part of the sex industry. Not that much difference between rubbing your genitals in a mans face in front of a group of people and having sex with a man for money.

You are determined to justify it in your mind so you can continue exploiting women for your own sexual gratification.

I repeat working with women does not mean you know if they were abused its not a subject you share with co workers. To be honest your assumption that women from good homes don't get abused and that as a co worker you would be privy to such personal information like if someone has been abused show how ignorant you are in matters of abuse.

So let's take Crawling's situation above then (hope that's OK Crawling). When she was considering working in a lapdancing club it was as a direct response to how she felt about herself after childhood abuse. Would you still say that was freedom of choice? Because I wouldn't.

How on earth can an individual dictate someone's line of work btw? All they can do is choose to support it or not through their own consumer choices. I choose not to be a consumer of the sex industry (lucky for me as unlike the OP's DP I don't have a spare grand at the moment!)

delboy

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

You asked why most people on this thread are against strip clubs? Well, think about this.

Most people would find it strange and distasteful if their (opposite sex) next door neighbour who they say hi to and invite to the occasional barbecue and watch as they struggle to put the bins out suddenly came up to them, stripped off their clothes so they were almost naked and then straddled them, rubbed their sex organs against them and pressed their bodies up against them.

That's usually because most people see their neighbours as people, friends, acquaintances. but aboveall, people. They would no more want their neighbour to dangle their sex organs in front of their nose than they would fly to the moon.

But in a strip club, there is a cognitive dissonance which allows punters to believe that:

a) it's normal to have strangers' genitals in your face
b) it's normal to pay someone for acts which give you a hard on
c) it's fine because these women are there 'voluntarily'
d) nobody gets hurt, there's no contact, it's all quite innocent and normal red-blooded male behaviour
e) these women are enjoying themselves, otherwise, why would they do it
f) it's in a context where "these women" performing and simulating these sex acts is fine....

but if it was the next door neighbour, it would be odd. That's because the strippers have been stripped of their humanity. They are no longer viewed as women, neighbours, mums, human beings with feelings and needs, they are just a vessel for the punter to get a hard on.

That's why I am against strip clubs, and that's without considering the women who are trafficked, assaulted, abused, forced against their will etc.

i dont know if they were abused- of course i dont. but to equate lap dancing with sleeping with a man for money is completely wrong. and i would imagine very offensive to the women who work in these clubs. on way to work now but will have a look and see if i can find any studies on lapdancers and sexual abuse. I dont think its any more likely than any woman working in any other job but am interested to see if I'm wrong

But surely by that reasoning Greythorne anything that desires a stranger to allow sexual gratification is unusual.

Better hope they don't make that 50 shades of grey movie then as the box office will be empty........

Sex sells and I think if you found out half of what your neighbours got up to, your head would turn three times over!!

Is it so bad because Men make it obvious by visiting these places??

Really. If you found out a neighbour was a stripper would you really think "Oh no they have been stripped of humanity" or would you be judgemental of them personally?

Delboyfileofax would you want your daughter to work in one of these 'clubs'?

I also don't think you 'asked an innocent question', because with the answers you've been given you still are missing the point.

OP please come back and give us an update.

I think what delboy is saying is that there is a broad sex industry. Unfortunately it is an area where many are exploited but that is why in many clubs these regulations are put in place.

All industries can be exploited (just think of onion pickers etc) It is just that due to the subject matter being sex, people are more quicker to jump on the gravy train.

If you have ever bought a vibrator, attended a Hen night with strippers, or sexy lingerie, you are partaking in the Sex industry. It is that Broad!!

Fuck, I can't believe some of the ridiculous "snooping" comments here. Please don't take them at all to heart, OP. Clearly I "snoop" every time I wash DP's jeans.

tjah04 The balance of power is off in any relationship where one person pays another for sexual gratification. Seriously you are missing the point that is being made.

Exploitation is wrong no matter which industry.

Yes Exploitation is wrong. I never said it wasn't. But it is highly inaccurate to assume that all people who work in the industry were or are victims of sexual abuse or exploitation.

And the balance of power has to be based on perception. Man spends £1000 for a no touching dance where some breasts wobble???? I know who I think is the winner!!!

I just wish women would stop placing all of the blame on Men when it comes to these things. If you look at the facts most exploited victims reported in the press are managed by females themselves.

I think if you found out half of what your neighbours got up to, your head would turn three times over!

I think the point is they're not getting up to it with me.

Greythorne thank you for your post it's the first time I've understood cognitive dissonance.

They wouldn't be unless you visited a club where it was licensed.

THAT would be illegal!!!

tjah04 same question to you, would you be happy with your partner or children working in a lapdancing club?

tjah exactly how much of that £1000 do you think went to the women?

Would you have such a problem if a man wanted to visit one other than your partner??

I used to work in the city and we would often take clients to "gentleman clubs" I can honestly say about 45% of the people in there were women.

In answer to your question, I wouldn't be happy but I would try not to be judgemental. I could understand it if the reason was for debt etc.... But I would also ensure that they respected themselves first and know what they were doing and if they did suspect anything untoward, to speak out against it. Stripping for a living does not define who you are as a person.

How many people buy the Sun and dont think about the effects of PAGE 3? In mind mind it is all the same thing!

Only a proportion of this industry is dark and I have said very broad indeed?

LTB. He sounds like a lying scoundrel, sorry!

As I said before, you have gentleman club and you have seedy backstreet strip clubs. Do I have problems with licensed gentlemen clubs? The answer is No.

All I am asking is that people consider how broad the industry is and accept that women can be as responsible for it as Men.

I would have no respect for either a woman or a man frequenting such clubs.
I also have a problem with page 3 style photos.
There is a high level of exploitation involved in both half naked photos and lap dancing clubs.

As for companies bringing clients or whatever to 'gentlemen's clubs', in my mind thats pretty vile and says a lot about the state of how clients are entertained in the corporate world.