to think sex ed encourages earlier sex?

[Sleepysand]

Not saying get rid of it, but seems to me a big part of me hanging on til I was 20 was a result of fear, not of pregnancy, but just the unknown. I had no idea what a man's bits looked like, and trust me, in my imagination they were scary (for some reason I thought the testicles were a clamp that grabbed you!)

Not sure that level of ignorance was great, but does familiarity breed more pressure on girls?

Yes lets get back to the days of Mrs O'Brien.

That is not her real name, she was the landlady of our local and once told me and my mother about her wedding night. She died in the 1990.

She was brought up and married in Ireland.

She thought her new husband would stand at the bottom of the bed and pee into her navel and that's how she would get pregnant.

Obviously new husband was not happy and couldn't pursuade her otherwise.

She told us how humiliated she was watching the priest walk down the street with a book hidden under his coat to explain to her how babies are made.

Or we could go to the days of my grandmother who thought she was going to die when she had her first period.

IMHO the Dutch have the best attitude to sex and sex ed.

Sex is as much of life as eating and shitting. It is talked about. Holland has consistently had the lowest teenage pregnancies for decades.

I also think the way numbers of teenage pregnancies are counted should indicate whether the teenager is in a relationship with the father a year after birth. Not to moralise, a baby puts a strain on any relationship but there should be some measure other than age of the circumstances of the mother.

For instance, virtually all the girls on Big Fat Gypsy Weddings are teenagers and most will become mothers as teenagers and most will still be married 20 years later. When we think about teenage pregnancy we don't usually think of a married woman.

I know it is not an ideal and if someone can come up with a better way to monitor the 'types' of teenagers.

I'm not suggesting pregnant girls be locked away and have their babies forcibly taken. I'm not suggesting that they should not get educated anywhere but the school they attended before they became pregnant. Students who have poor grades, caught drunk or behaving badly should not represent their school in extracurricular activities either. Many schools here have such rules, including state schools.
I have heard of DNA. Some girls don't know the father's legal name, or where he lives.

No, you are just saying they should be ostracized and live in poverty.

Students who have poor grades, caught drunk or behaving badly should not represent their school in extracurricular activities either

Sex is a biological function that teenagers are programmed to want, and pregnancy is just a biological function that their bodies are ready for. So not really quite the same is it. And not really for any of us to punish them for.

We have an age of consent to protect young children from abuse not to punish them, it is not for you to force your morality on them.

Op, when I read your post I genuinely thought it was a wind up, just to create an interesting discussion. I've read the whole thread now & am really surprised by some of the serious comments you made. It's reassuring to know that the vast majority of mners know that what you say has been proved wrong by many different studies. (Although it's scary that one or two people have voiced more insane contraversial views.) It would be lovely if sex ed could be tackled in the home, but unless you can figure out a way for children to be given the same information at the same time, you will still have some children being educated by other children, with misinformation passed down from their older brothers, or children searching the Internet for answers to their questions & finding them in the copious amounts of free online porn. I would like to see an increase in sex education in schools - certainly starting way before 12 & covering all the topics that have been raised on this thread (such as self esteem & relationships). Failing this I will aim to supplement my dcs education at home to ensure, when the time comes, they are able to make well thought out decisions. X

I may be wrong here but for some reason I don't think OP is interested if anyone thinks she's BU or not. This was kind of interesting for a while but am kicking myself for getting sucked in now. Think I'll hide this thread now and leave OP and ERICA with their fun winding up and promoting of backward thinking.

I may be wrong here but for some reason I don't think OP is interested if anyone thinks she's BU or not. This was kind of interesting for a while but am kicking myself for getting sucked in now. Think I'll hide this thread now and leave OP and ERICA with their fun winding up and promoting of backward thinking.

"But the evidence is also that the age of first sex has fallen alongside increased sex ed, and pregnancy rates have gone up."

Can we see any figures for the rising pregnancy rates? Because what I have heard is that pregnancy rates are in fact falling, but still have a way to go before they get to the level of other northern countries with better sex education and a more open attitude to sex.

I shall be happy to be informed, but I want decent graphs showing the full period of sex education against the trend of teen pregnancies since before sex education started. If you are just saying there has been a slight rise in the last year or two against an overall lowering of numbers, then I shall not be impressed.

Well I have aways felt that education and knowledge coupled with the ability for a child to ask questions and get honest answers works better than a lack of knowledge and understanding.

I've always made sure that discussions about sex, drugs, alcohol etc were held in as calm as fashion as could be achieved and I've discussed underage sex and the implications of it with groups of DSs friends before now. They've appreciated hearing things from an adult perspective and the girls have said how they can talk to me but not to their own mothers which I've found sad.

Those little children don't stay little and innocent for long when they reach high school

sassh, from my understanding about the Dutch, sex is a part of their life, yes, but while they have a lower age of consent than we do, there seems still to be a large expectation that girls in particular don't have sex too young, even if over the age of consent. Teenage pregnancy is still seen as something to be avoided.

Actually it's not the age of sex education that bothers me, it's the quality. I'm getting worried that in this age of the web, the children are being heaviliy influence by porn. Reports are beginning to suggest that teenagers and young people are finding that their sexual partners are trying to push them into what was once less common sexual activities and that the youngsters get their ideas of what a relationship should be like from porn.

I also think that reports of a rise in DV amongst young people is tied into this, porn degrades women and those attitudes shine through it and influence the young men especially.

I don't believe we are doing enough as a society to help these young people realise that porn is just fantasy and that real relationships need to be conducted with respect on both sides.

I think YABU. If anything, sex ed put me off sex. we watched a video of a naked family with hairy parents walking on the beach and it just made me feel sick. I also can't believe they were allowed to make a video like that...they were ALL naked...the girl and boy were about 9 and 10 and they were naked on TV! This wouldn't be allowed in this day and age.

At 4/5 DS started to ask questions about how babies are made. So I explained about sperms and eggs. We talk about the biology of making babies (twins from 1 egg or 2, why women have periods - he walked in on me and saw me emptying my mooncup one day), where sperms are made etc... and feelings. All in a very IMO age appropriate and basic/functional way.

As he gets older and questions/situations arise I will talk about things in more detail. He already knows that some people like/love people of their own gender and to him it's no big deal.

For me the key is little and often, building on the simple biological/mechanical aspects of sex, towards the more complicated emotions/STI/HIV/porn/family planning

I see this as my responsibility to educate and inform him as I can't rely on school to do such a thorough job of it. It is also important to me that he realises the consequences of his actions. That getting a young woman pregnant harms hers' and his early life chances. It's all about making an informed choice and understanding consequences.

If you can't already tell - i'm really in favour of the Dutch method!

Not read all of this.. Sex ed lessons made no difference into when I had sex however I can say I was not emotionally ready. I used sex as a way of feeling loved, my first was a one night stand with a much older guy, followed by lots of sex with random older guys again..

The biggest age gap being approx 20years while I was under 16 by a few years.

None of that was because school said sex is great go and do it..

I suppose what I wanted to elicit - and I certainly have - was what people thought of sex ed and the impact it has had on young people. I had no idea that I was going to attract quite such a following - or actually, quite as many personal, and very hurtful, comments.

I certainly (as I said at the beginning) don't think that the level of anatomical ignorance I had was desirable - as one poster implied, it put me off cementing a lovely and loving relationship which - if my own children had such a chance - I would regard as better consummated than not. (FWIW, I met him again later and we did have a lovely, and loving, relationship, but couldn't make our lives work together; he married another school mate and I moved hundreds of miles away). FWIW again, my ignorance was not unusual at the time. I knew about condoms and I knew what bit had to go in where, but had no real idea what the male anatomy looked like. There was a drawing in a book and (being blunt) the testes were hidden behind the penis, and the bits that showed either side looked like a pair of claws. It was a small scale drawing, and that was the only sex ed in terms of anatomy that I had until I was post-16. That lack of knowledge put me off for a long time. Between 16 and 20 I did not meet anyone who I really really wanted to have sex with. I don't have any unusual inhibitions about sex now!

I also categorically would not ever want to ban sex ed, or whatever various posters imputed to me - I asked a question about its impact and described sex ed in my experience, and expressed fears about the consequences it had. It should go without saying that I wouldn't want anyone not to know about contraception. My fears, as expressed many times in this thread, relate to the manner and nature of sex ed, and to the way that it suggests to young people in a world where they are already exposed, that having sex as a teenager is normal - not to its existence.

Sex ed in schools is just not very good. Because of fears about unprotected sex, we focus on contraception, and because it is often taught by R&P and Biology teachers, we get a moral view and a technical view, but rarely do we get the real life view, or couple it with a need for far earlier, more specific and more intimate conversations about self-worth and societal expectations. I am delighted that some of your DCs have had better, but assure you that I have seen the sex ed programmes of a lot of schools, and our sex ed programme was designed by someone who has had that sort of function in many more, and they all see to focus on the function not the feeling.

None of my children has ever received a lesson about pornography, and a recent suggestion that this should be covered (and I think it should) was met with howls of protest in the press. The entire area is a minefield and the consequence is that in schools, they get told how to do it and how to make it safe, what the consequences are if it is unsafe - and NOT why perhaps they shouldn't, what makes it emotionally unsafe, or why you are worth more (in the words of one poster here) than a quick fuck.

I am shocked by the views expressed by some posters that (in effect) if young people want to have sex we shouldn't have a moral view on whether they should. Of course we should - young people do lots of reckless things and we have a moral duty to guard them until they are more able to make decisions that they are less likely to regret later. It is not just to protect from abuse by chronologically older people that we have an age of consent, surely?

I am not sure if I regret posting this or not - it has certainly been food for thought. I had not expected to feel so judged, but maybe I deserved it. My views have shifted a little, perhaps, but mainly toward the idea that a different solution to the sex ed question needs to be found. If that makes me unreasonable, then I am.

Blimey, this hot worse over night!
I do deliver sex ed in primary school. We start in reception and go all the way through to Y6 with a programme in each year. For the younger kids its sll about friendship and peer issues and discussing early on how boys snd girls are different but equal. In years 1&2 we do body parts including genitals. This may shock some people but actually the kids respond in a very matter of fact way to thIs when they are 6yrs. We teach them that these parts of their bodies are private and just for them.

It is very much based firmly in relationship context and, in the actual part that deals with intercourse in Y6 is talked about as something that adults do within the confines of a loving relationship. The emphasis is always on respect right the way through the programme. In Y6 we also look at body image and they see slides of lots of different naked bodies from the neck down. This leads to a huge discussion about how lots of body shapes and sizes are ok. How being over weight isn't healthy but neither is being underweight. We also talk a lot about airbrushing and this is continued into KS3 where they use the examples of barbie and the famous Kate Winslet shot as examples. One secondary school I know sent two willing teachers (woman&bloke) to be airbrushed. The kids were astounded! It was a great exercise especially for the teenage girls.
All this comes under sex education so it really is no longer a case of one hour of basic biology or some poor presenter showing 15yr olds how to put a condom on.

Sleepysand, the focus really isn't on contraception these days. That is an important part of it all but the main focus is on young people being aware of their own bodies, feelings and sexuality. And crucially, on mutual respect.

In Y5 we normally do mestruation. These lessons are for both boys and girls although they also have two sessions separately. They are taught not only the physical mechanics of menstuation but also how it might affect them emotionally bith through hormones and crucially nerves and worry. It is vital that the boys are also aware of all this as it leads (hopefully) to a little more empathy or understanding perhaps of their sisters and later, their partners.

YABU. Early sex is about 'pleasing' someone else. It's down to a lack if self confidence and lack of self esteem. It is also related to early sexual abuse and emotional abuse.

Knowledge is power.

OP I think you are projecting your issues from early childhood/teen years.

I would suggest that a much more thorough and open discussion about sex would have equipped you with the appropriate knowledge not to be scared of a perfectly natural aspect of human nature, and empowered you to make sensible and healthy decisions about your own sex life.

Knowledge is power. Always.

Definitely.

At my school we wer told The Facts of Life at nine, and by the age of ten, 18 girls in my class were preggers.

thanks for the amateur psychoanalysis, StuntGirl - valued much.

Hullygully, while I see the irony, you do, of course, know that is not what I meant.

FryOneFatManic Wed 16-Jan-13 09:31:28
"sassh, from my understanding about the Dutch, sex is a part of their life, yes, but while they have a lower age of consent than we do, there seems still to be a large expectation that girls in particular don't have sex too young, even if over the age of consent. Teenage pregnancy is still seen as something to be avoided."

Can't answer for the Dutch, but I do know a fair bit about the Swedes (being one etc). Age of consent is 15 and while the rate of teen pregnancy is very low, there is no sense that young people shouldn't be having sex.
Even when I grew up in the 70s it was common for 15yos to be sleeping with their boyfriends. However, I only ever knew of one teen pregnancy, and that was the daughter of the Baptist pastor who got pregnant during a study year in America.

The general assumption is, and was, that young people should not be having unprotected sex. And at least in those days, they didn't.

Otoh there was no particular pressure on those of us who didn't happen (for one reason or another) to want to have sex at that particular time of our lives. And certainly nothing in those biology lessons that made me feel I had to rush out and get laid at the earliest opportunity. But you could if you wanted, without being labelled a slag.

And a close friend of mine was very nearly abused by a relative at a young age because she a) did not know the words (of common parlance) that her would-be seducer used b) had not been taught anything about when sex is permissible and when it is not. She told me afterwards that she was convinced she would have committed suicide if her abuser had got his way. In her case, knowledge would have been power.