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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

16 kids and counting...

378 replies

thatisall · 11/01/2013 21:47

I genuinely don't know what I think, have no strong opinions about their lifestyle, life choices etc etc.....my first thoughts were that it was just too many but they seem very nice and happy lol

Am I being unreasonable to want to chat about the show on here anyway?

No I'm not a jour no trying to get a MN quote before someone suggests it....

....just sat at home alone thinking 16....? 16!? :-O

OP posts:
flatpackhamster · 14/01/2013 11:45

OwlLady
erm, how can a child squander an education at a special school when the only schools that are left are SLD/PMLD schools and the children there require an education and care so specialised that they cannot receive it in a mainstream environment? confused

What part of the word 'If' did you miss?

are you for real? We are talking about the most vulnerable children within our society, not some free pass to disneyworld

Oh yes, 'vulnerable'. That's the Left's latest "Buzzword", isn't it?

OwlLady · 14/01/2013 11:48

children at SLD/PMLD school ARE vulnerable, stop being so ignorant

also under the human rights act 1952, all children in Europe are entitled to a free education

janey68 · 14/01/2013 11:49

Thebitchbrigade- how does stating that it's not great for a girl to give birth at 14 equate to wanting her to grovel in the dirt or give the baby up? You are taking what people are saying and running a mile (or three) with it.

I didn't even say I thought the programme was glorifying it. I was
Simply saying that selling the minutiae of your children's lives to the media, fuelled either by a simple desire to have public exposure, or by financial reward (and i suspect there's a bit of both at play here) does not sit comfortably with many of us

They could have had a large family, a dozen or more children and be living anonymously. There must be other very large families who do. The radfords are choosing not to. Or rather mum and dad are choosing not to- the kids don't have that choice

cantspel · 14/01/2013 11:52

can someone please remind me to tell my son how privileged he is the next time someone taunts him with the fact he goes to the "retards school"

flatpackhamster · 14/01/2013 11:59

OwlLady
children at SLD/PMLD school ARE vulnerable, stop being so ignorant

No, my point was that the current fad from the left is to label everyone as 'vulnerable' so that when anyone proposes cutting expenditure a Great Wailing And Gnashing Of Teeth occurs over the 'vulnerables'.

also under the human rights act 1952, all children in Europe are entitled to a free education

The HRA doesn't define the scope of that free education. Access to specialist schooling is a privilege and it's good for the children that get that schooling. But never forget that it remains a privilege.

cantspel

can someone please remind me to tell my son how privileged he is the next time someone taunts him with the fact he goes to the "retards school"

A century ago he'd have been stuck in an institution for his entire life. Now he gets the education and support he needs. I don't see what the taunting has to do with it, apart from as a transparent attempt to emotionally blackmail me.

slad · 14/01/2013 12:09

hello all,
I have watched the show and was impressed how well they manage to feed, bath and put to sleep everyone. I can't imagine me having that many lol but they seem happy so I guess that's what counts.

On the other hand there was something that one of the son's said that I feel was very sad:-/
He said that when he grows up and leave the house there will be new kid to replace him and he will be forgotten.
And sadly he is probably right they are just too busy with looking after other kids.

I personally would like to be able give my children my time, to know them well and be able to do things with them. But I can't see how you can do it with that many.

cantspel · 14/01/2013 12:10

no emotional blackmail but the very fact that you seem to think that special needs children now being able access education is as some sort of privilege is a trifle worrying as a privilage and be withdrawn at any time.

I dont want to live in a society where children needs met is seen as a privilege and i should be grateful he is not going to be dumped in some sort of institution because it is cheaper on the public purse.

OwlLady · 14/01/2013 12:14

It isn't cheaper to institutionalise children with severe and complex special needs, it's actually a lot more expensive. Carers save the economy billions

5madthings · 14/01/2013 12:16

Specialist schooling for children with sn's is not a privilidge its a basic right. In the UK education has to be tailored to the child and their needs. 'Every child matters' just because the hora doesn't define what type of education should be provided doesn't make it a privilege!!

You make it sound like those with sn's should be grateful they aren't still stuck away in an institute. Thank god we have moved on but we still have a long way to go when it comes to disabilist attitudes as some posters have shown.

thebitchbrigade · 14/01/2013 12:22

Janey - my comment about glorifying was not aimed at your post, apologies as I did not make that clear. There was an awful lot of mention of hat upthread to which I was alluding.

thebitchbrigade · 14/01/2013 12:24

And agreed - the notion of sn education being a privilege is dreadful. Wrong and dreadful.

LadyBeagleEyes · 14/01/2013 13:32

Your posts are vile and disablist Flatpack, and nothing to do with the subject of the thread.

chocoluvva · 14/01/2013 13:44

I can see how people can hold the opinion that having an average number of healthy children is a lovely thing for the parents, and also lucky so to have a very large family could seem greedy.

But greed comes in many forms, flatpack.

And there's more to having a well-functioning, fair society than can be measured. Contribution to the financial kitty is only one way of contributing to society.

WileyRoadRunner · 14/01/2013 13:53

Won't get into the financial/social points that have been raised but I felt sorry for the children. There is absolutely no way you can give enough attention to 17 children. It's ridiculous. How often really does she play with each/any of them despite being at home? When she is doing 9 loads of washing, ironing 100 items daily and doing countless nursery runs all whilst tending to the newest baby.

What happens if the family bakery goes under? They said he had to come home to get the children to school, what happens if he has to go and work for somebody else?

I would be very interested to see a documentary in ten/fifteen years time to see how close they all are then/ where they are.

chocoluvva · 14/01/2013 13:59

A follow-up documentary would be very interesting.

I used to wonder at how other people could blithely take the risks they do - eg, "if the family bakery goes under", but now I'm much slightly older I quite admire that approach to life. I sometimes wish I'd taken more risks...

flatpackhamster · 14/01/2013 14:33

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

OwlLady · 14/01/2013 15:22

Not very keen on the notion of living in a civilised country then flatpack?

The description 'vulnerable' to describe children who are vulnerable is a factual statement, not emotional blackmail

chocoluvva · 14/01/2013 15:35

Flatpack, the government isn't "taking all our money and spending it on welfare" - our income tax is lower than most of the scandinavian countries for example.

thebitchbrigade · 14/01/2013 16:55

How horrible for you flatpack, just to be you. You sound so bitter.

LunaticFringe · 14/01/2013 17:53

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

zingally · 14/01/2013 18:35

I watched this and just thought "each to their own". It certainly wouldn't be my choice, but if they are happy and the children are happy, then leave them to it.

I did think they were stupid over the passports though. Leaving them until 3 weeks before the holiday was pretty moronic and cost them a lot of money in the end!

Reminded me of the Duggar family in the UK. They have 19 kids (religious - don't use birth control, leave it up to god - types). Kid 19 was born extremely premature, nearly died a number of times. Mum got pregnant with number 20 but the baby sadly died inside around the 5-month mark if I remember correctly.

thebitchbrigade · 14/01/2013 18:43

Lunatic that is a very good point I hadn't thought about it in those terms but yes of courseare right and this was the same for my Grandads family, there were 14 of them, all workers, several were soldiers in WW2.

I am very uncomfy with the idea that being in a big family means you will not be a productive member of society (whatever the fuck that means!)

Trust me I only have five and people always make comments about how do you have time, how they could never do it etc etc. It is hard work but I am in my element and if I weren't such an old bint and have met DH so late I would have had a lot more. I do struggle sometimes too, I am not Mary Poppins.... I take my hat off to her with the ironing, I pay someone to do mine!!! Blush

The assumptions people make about this family are breathtaking. One of the problems I feel in modern parents (and take this as you will) is that we are trying to balance it all and have it all. I know that this is a kind of anti feminist and regressive stance but I do feel that women have been shot in the foot a lot of the time around Mothering and feel that 'just' being a Mother is not enough. I am not suggesting we all go back to the 40's/50's but honestly those parents were absolutely devoted to those children and I personally know a lot of children (even only children and two's) that do not have quality time with their parents. Their parents seem to want to rush them through their childhood, get past the hard work stage and cannot wait for the school holidays to end. I am not saying that this is a script for modern parenting but for me, seeing these parents just reveling in their children and loving each stage (even though we can cast aspersions on the psychological reasons for that...) was so refreshing. When so many people struggle with modern parenting they seemed to take it in their stride. I think a lot of Mothers find it hard to see someone so surrendered to parenting (and I do not mean that in a doormat context) - it does spawn a bit of spite in some. That Mother was confident in herself that she was doing the best she could, how nice to see that.

And this thing with children not having enough time etc etc again I don't really buy into it. That poor boy missed his birthday because his Mum was having a baby but one of my children had his birthday delayed too because we were all ill - do you know, he got over it, it was no biggie. We are all raising hugely mollycoddled children with no coping skills (again I know, generalisations) but I do think that their children will be well placed to go out into the world. Remember their 18 year old daughter was working until she had the baby not sat on her bum doing nought! Despite a poor start and a very young pregnancy at just 14, they have not let themselves be defined by that bad planning and run a business and provide for their children. And all this what if the business goes etc etc. Seriously, how many people really live in this place of continual disaster planning. It is sensible to work on the probable and not the possible.

Is there a phrase or something about it takes a village to raise a child? they literally have their own village.

wordfactory · 14/01/2013 18:50

It's not really to do with the number of them. The fact is that the vast majority of people are net takers not contributors. So it is highly unlikely that any/many of these DC will be net contributors.

Not a judgement, just a fact in repsonse to those saying these parents were breeding the next generation of tax payers.

It is possible of course that this family buck the trend. Though the stats also show that the net contributors are likely to be highly educated and the highly educated statistically have highly educated Mothers. Not impossible though. Just unlikely.

pigletmania · 14/01/2013 18:51

Flat pack specialist education s a rght not a privilege. Those accessing speicalist education have SPECIAL NEEDS And need acsoecalist environment and teaching which a mainstream school cannot provide. It's not my fault my dd has sn and needs that type if education

OwlLady · 14/01/2013 18:54

I don't think you can prove a fact based on something that hasn't actually happened and even it has it would be based on a statistical 'fact' rather than on actual fact