16 kids and counting...

[thatisall]

I genuinely don't know what I think, have no strong opinions about their lifestyle, life choices etc etc.....my first thoughts were that it was just too many but they seem very nice and happy lol

Am I being unreasonable to want to chat about the show on here anyway?

No I'm not a jour no trying to get a MN quote before someone suggests it....

....just sat at home alone thinking 16....? 16!? :-O

izzy - I made that point earlier myself

I like this family, I like them a lot. The parents seemed to be just so happy to be with their children , counting their blessings and doing as they please. I fail to see how they are a drain on resources, that is the point of being in a society, we all need to support one another. One day these children will grow up and pay taxes to keep us all (whether we have had our own children or not). We should not be thinking in terms of every man for himself, this is not America. Me and Mr BitchBrigade pay an awful lot of tax and have a large number of children. Is that ok then as we pay higher rate? Families like this are extremely rare and it is good for all sorts of people to be raised in all sorts of ways because this means we can all being something a little different to the table as parents and in the workplace/education etc.

I stand by this. everyone has something to offer but it is not always financial. As soon as we reduce our values to this level we all become poorer people.

Tbf I think cantspel was just pointing out that large families are rare and as there are more 3/4/5 child families on the whole those with lots of dc are no more a drain then all the 3/4 child families.

If that makes any sense as I'm bloody sleep deprived.

It seems that usually her pg are fairly straight forward and she only spends 6 hours in hospital afterwards. I think my pg have probably been more of a drain on the nhs than hers.

The dm and the sun have quoted £30,000 wage but we don't know if that's after tax or even if it's a true figure. They work, own their own home and the dc all looked happy and well cared for. Good on them if that's what they want to do.

Moomin has it in one.

My point was if you are going to claim this family is a drain on society then you have to also accept that 3/4/5 child families are a bigger drain just because of the sheer number of them will far out weight the number of 16 child families.

I personal view is they came across as a lovely family and in particular Noel the dad seemed to be everything and more you could wish for in a father. It was a very interesting program and didn't glorify teen pregnancy or in anyway encourage large families. In fact i cant see anyone having watched that program who would be encouraged to then go and have 16 kids themselves.

As to how many children a woman should have well as long as you can aford them and they are loved, wanted, and all their material needs met i dont see why a woman shouldn't have as many as she wants be it 2 or 22.

My child has already become that terminally ill/disabled person. That drain on resources. She was disabled before she developed the cancer that killed her and then heaven only knows what it cost to treat her.

We are taxpayers, always were, I'd bet London to a brick our children will get the hell out of here and pay tax to other governments. I'd be completely shocked if they wound up staying here, tbh. There are two surviving. I expect them to fuck off to Australia, Canada, S. Africa, who knows?

There will not be more. DH had a vasectomy 2 years ago because of our personal beliefs. Reproducing kids into the double digits is not responsible.

So I still think having 16 kids is irresponsible, selfish and warped, no matter if it's them or the Duggars or polygs or Octomums or what have you. I don't buy the whole eugenics/taxpayer argument. These are people who will continue to reproduce because there's a screw loose up there.

I don't think there's a thing 'lovely' about having a kid when you're 14, no matter how it worked out, that's a good thing to laud in the media.

And I think CB should be limited to the first 2 children.

And honestly, I can't imagine this family doesn't claim CTC, for all they say to the Daily Fail.

Expat. I can't even consider your views, I'm reeling from. Reading what you've even through. I'm so sorry to hear about your dd x

people with 3 or 4 or 5 children don't generally drag them through the media though. The radfords appear in the national newspapers, breakfast telly- as well as the actual 16 children and counting. Most of those children are Far too young to decide whether they want that exposure. Even the ones who seemed happy to talk to the camera may regret this level of exposure in a few years time. And it would be very hard to be the one child who makes a stand against it when the media interest is in the family as a whole.

I suspect the main motivation for the exposure is money, to top up their income because there is no way they could afford the £3k a year on presents, the huge passport bill, even the bowling trip added up to £250 ...

I agree the family are loving and the parents seem to be doing a good Job generally, but I don't for a minute believe that particular aspect of parenting- agreeing on behalf of the whole family to lay their lives bare in the media, is right or fair to the children.

Sue is so addicted to having babies that (although she loves all her children) she is willing to compromise their feelings about this

Well what about obem, the whole world seeing you emerge from your mothers fanjo

thebitchbrigade

I like this family, I like them a lot. The parents seemed to be just so happy to be with their children , counting their blessings and doing as they please. I fail to see how they are a drain on resources, that is the point of being in a society, we all need to support one another. One day these children will grow up and pay taxes to keep us all (whether we have had our own children or not).

Unless your salary is over £30,000 a year, you'll never pay enough in taxes to contribute more than you cost in welfare.

And considering the first of their kids is, apparently, already pregnant with her first baby, they don't look like the type to be 'contributors'.

We should not be thinking in terms of every man for himself, this is not America. Me and Mr BitchBrigade pay an awful lot of tax and have a large number of children. Is that ok then as we pay higher rate? Families like this are extremely rare and it is good for all sorts of people to be raised in all sorts of ways because this means we can all being something a little different to the table as parents and in the workplace/education etc.

I seriously doubt many of these kids will end up in the workplace.

I stand by this. everyone has something to offer but it is not always financial. As soon as we reduce our values to this level we all become poorer people.

No, we become poorer people when government takes all our money and spends it on welfare. That's what is happening now.

You want to subsidise their lifestyle, then knock yourself out. I would limit child benefit to the first 2 pregnancies completed to term. But then, I'm not loaded like you are, so I have to think about what I spend my money on.

What? So because you come from a large family it means you won't work? The second child who has just had a baby works, as does her partner.

The parents both worked in the business they bought in the begining. There is no reason to think these children won't grow up and work.

If they are not claiming anything but cb why bring welfare into it

Posted too soon, they may cost alot in schooling but there is no reason to think they are a drain on the nhs . They don't have social housing and I doubt a cap on cb would stop them having children.

Moomin- I wouldn't want to appear on OBEM either - I don't really understand why some women want their birth on telly. BUT the big difference here is that on OBEM i dont think the families are identified by surname, and the focus is more on the different birth experiences whereas the whole point of this programme and all the accompanying media stuff, not to mention the website, is to publicise the whole family. At the end of the day, shes a woman who got up the duff at age 14, and then followed on by starting to have approx a child per year from age 19. Ok, this particular family were fortunate in that it seems her parents are generally supportive, coming and looking after the kids etc, and it also seems there was a family business which has enabled noel to work, despite being a teenage dad. But really, it's nothing to celebrate is it- teenage pregnancy and popping babies out Frequently. This isn't publicity about any great achievement. Yes, they're a loving family but so what- you could pick many families and say the same thing. I just think those kids are being exposed because of their something which is way beyond their control

It's wasn't a family business though, they bought it. They also said that usually the gp only helped out when she was giving birth.

I can't see what being teenage parents has to do with anything, they worked bought a business to support their family. Why should anyone care how many children they have or how old they were when they started to have them.

I loved the programme, I love babies and would happily have lots and lots...except after paying our bills and clothing and feeding and paying for the 4 children we have already even as a 2 income family (with more than 30,000 a year coming in) I honestly don't know how they afford them? I looked at the child benefit and basic child tax credit rates and with 14 kids - the older ones are not applicable to the parents' claims - (assuming they claim those benefits) they would receive something in the region of £350 per week so I expect that helps! But the cost of a 10 bedroom home, just on council tax, gas and electric, repairs, the amount of washing powder, toilet roll and toothpaste they must go through...not to mention car insurance on the van they drive. I don't know how they can afford a £5000 foreign holiday every year!

Moomin- I missed the bit where it said they bought the business- I thought it just said it was a family business. Would be interesting to know how a pair of teenage parents managed to buy a business, I wonder if they had family help for that? Which is fine, but it's hardly real life for most teenagers who get pregnant. And while as i say I applaud the family for clearly being loving and caring and as financially independent as possible, it doesn't seem any cause of celebration for a 14 year old to be giving birth. 14 is still a child. And all the media exposure does not sit comfortably with me at all- those kids are not getting a choice in it, and may regret it. Ultimately, what's to stop them being a loving family living anonymously? I suspect they have created a situation where they need to expose their children to the media to fund their lives

I don't know what the alternative is though. I know someone who had a child at 14 in the 70s and was not allowed to keep it and has never gotten over that. is that a better way to behave? (I actually think it was incredibly cruel)

I htought they seemed a nice family, but some of the middel DC, particularly the child who had his birthday party, looked glum. There is no way they are receiving enough attention and one-to-one.

Mum is just caught up in the day to day struggle of keeping the ship afloat (ironing 100 items of clothes each day) surely?

As for raising 16 future tax payers...well it is statistically unlikely that any/many of them will be net contributors rather than net takers...andif the eldest is anyhting to go on...

I'm quite envious of the way the adults both seem to know what they want from life and are very successfully achieving it, having the confidence to take risks and be apparently relaxed and having fun.

I suspect that many more people would have bigger families if they had more/energy/patience/confidence/money. Maybe the lady does have a psychological problem - don't many many other parents too?

There will obviously be disadvantages to being one of a large family, but singletons/middle children of any number more than 2/the only child of one gender with 2 or 3 siblings can feel disadvantaged too. No parent or family is perfect - and it's not for someone else to decide what this couple can or can't cope with. They're both exceptional people.

Can't quote as on phone, but what janey said re having to publicise family to fund it. Got to be.

FWIW I don't think all of those children are genuinely happy either.

OwlLady I know someone too that I went to school with (this was the 80's) and she was shamed into giving her baby up, she too has never got over it. I fail to see how showing a tv programme where the Mother originally had a baby so young is gloryfying it. It is stating the facts that is all. So it would be ok to see her grovelling in the dirt , drug addicted and homeless with numerous children in care, does that fit with the ideas of young single Mums better. Showing someone having been successful after a not so good start is not glorifying it, it is just how it is for some people. I cannot imagine that the Mother would like her own child to become a Mother at 14 but how long should she apologise for something that happened so long ago. My friend had a baby at 17 over 26 years ago and her family still look down on her for it now.

The thing that comes across from some posters on this thread is their absolute meanness towards other people. None of us knows what is around the corner, any of us could end up with a pregnant teenage daughter, it happens in naice homes too you know. If your own daughter wanted to keep that baby however ill advised that was in your mind, would you want to heap shame on her forever? The fucking same old Tory bollocks about every man for himself.

If we get into a place where it is every man for himself then we are fucked, completely fucked. Look at the United States and the absolute shame about their lack of health care for a start. They have huge infant and maternal mortality rates for a developed country, trying for force these bills through congress is very hard because people have the attitude that to help others is to take away from oneself. Even liberal people struggle with the concept of Universal healthcare. I believe the opposite. It is true that I am not on the breadline but I tell you I have been. I have sent my children to school in plimsolls for a few weeks until I could afford shoes, it was either that or no petrol to get them to school. I choose to participate in society as a whole, we all need one another.

My oldest son is in a special needs school and has been for most of his education. His school years have probably cost the public purse more than educating all of those 16 children.
Is my son not entitled to an education that suits his needs just because he uses more than his fair share? He is never likely to have ahigh flying career and pay back into the pot what he has already taken out but he will still live a useful and for-filling life and be an asset to any community he is in.

canspel all your posts have struck such a chord with me. The sort of intolerance expressed throughout this thread is the thin end of the wedge. I have a dd who needs very specialist medial stuff for her healthcare, she would have to work for a 100 years to pay it all back. The whole concept of fair share is null here.

cantspel

My oldest son is in a special needs school and has been for most of his education. His school years have probably cost the public purse more than educating all of those 16 children.
Is my son not entitled to an education that suits his needs just because he uses more than his fair share? He is never likely to have ahigh flying career and pay back into the pot what he has already taken out but he will still live a useful and for-filling life and be an asset to any community he is in.

No, he is not 'entitled'. He is privileged to receive it. If he squandered it, it would be money badly spent and I would have a problem with it.

erm, how can a child squander an education at a special school when the only schools that are left are SLD/PMLD schools and the children there require an education and care so specialised that they cannot receive it in a mainstream environment?

are you for real? We are talking about the most vulnerable children within our society, not some free pass to disneyworld

The posters spouting on claiming that a couple of interviews and ONE tv one off documentary is a terrible violation of the childrens privacy, I mean come on, what about celebs with paparazzi following them every minute, are they not entitled to have kids because they haven't given informed consent? The Radfords aren't glory seekers FGS, they are telling their story as it is, probably to set straight many of the misgivings that the public may have about them just like this thread. I'd hardly say the kids are constantly under the spotlight........

I've also been thinking about the whole "individual attention" concept (something I previously thought was inportant) That is exclusively a western concept and a fairly new one too, and in terms of emotional/psychological/behavioural problems these are all on the rise so perhaps this "individual attention (IA)" is creating a generation of "me, me, me" and even counter productive? I spent time living in the middle east where families averaged 6 children, and the IA concept was non existent but I felt kids there were much better behaved, sibling rivalry wasn't an issue and everyone learned from an early age they are part of a family where everyone has their role but no one is better than anyone else IYKWIM?

The kids have a very stable, loving environment with both parents who are clearly very commited to them and to each other. You only have to read the relationships section on here to see that many single children don't have that priviledge.

The Radford children seemed very well balanced IMHO (I am a clinical psychology student), hats off to the pair of them!

thebitchbrigade

The thing that comes across from some posters on this thread is their absolute meanness towards other people. None of us knows what is around the corner, any of us could end up with a pregnant teenage daughter, it happens in naice homes too you know. If your own daughter wanted to keep that baby however ill advised that was in your mind, would you want to heap shame on her forever? The fucking same old Tory bollocks about every man for himself.

So your solution is "Everyone help themselves to free stuff from the taxpayer", isn't it? And what happens when the money runs out?

It's nothing to do with 'Tory bollocks', it's about fiscal probity and people treating the welfare state as their personal bank account. The safety net has become a hammock.