To not understand why anyone cares if other mothers choose to feed their babies breastmilk or formula.

[honeytea]

I am a new mum and have only recently come across the breastfeeding/formula feeding debate.

I breastfeed my DS because it is free and he is growing well and it is easy I don't think we would leave the house if i had to think about bringing steralised bottles and milk with me

I like other people's babies but I can't say I have an opinion on how other women feed their babies, so long as the baby is fed it is really nothing to do with me.

Why do some people care so much about what a baby eats? There are so many things in the world to get angry about, starving children, children with freezing homes, abuse horrid horrid things but so many people seem to get het up about well loved children drinking formula.

Am I missing something?

my MIl used to say every time they cried 'oh he/she wants a bottle they are hungry' but nevermind, she is a nice woman normally

Poor response to my post Starlight. Do you think formula feeders should feel guilty?? Genuine question.

'Do we actually have any evidence that the social democrat politicians who introduced the Scandinavian welfare state were breastfed? '

Nope. But they serve the women voters who, on the whole were, but importantly, do. It is the doing that triggers the oxytocin in the women who bf, rather than received in the baby.

I have already explained that breastfeeding women need to be in positions of influence and power in order to make the difference, which in those 'terrible' countries, they are not. In fact, to some extent in those countries where bfing rates are high they are prevented further from accessing that power by being tied to their children. Formula is often seen and promoted as liberating, when it should be attitudes, not products.

Nothing genuine about your question double. By starting your post with 'poor response' you are clearly baiting.

Formula is liberating for the many mothers like me who loath breast feeding,pretty much like working is for the many women who hate staying at home.

If you have a problem with that it's your problem.

I don't have a problem with women who use formula in a country where it is almost impossible not to.

Can we clear up a few things? Everyone, EVERYONE, believes that women should be free to choose how they feed their baby. Hence the multiple comments on this thread about how women should be free to choose how to feed their baby are pointless and actually a bit inflammatory. (because they imply that someone out there is making a case for enforced breastfeeding, when actually nobody is).

Secondly, apart from the very rare numpty, ALL sensible people realise that mothers decision as to how they will feed their baby will be influenced by many different factors. These include their exposure to and familiarity with breastfeeding, cultural norms within their social circles, their experiences of birth, how their baby feeds, their experiences of support for feeding.

Anyone sensible who has any involvement with or interest in infant feeding knows this is a complex issue.

You can hold the opinions above and still feel that breastfeeding is important for babies and should be protected at a societal level. The belief in breastfeeding protection and promotion doesn't run counter to a belief in women's freedom to choose, or an understanding and acceptance of the complex issues which influence women's feeding choices.

On another note, I think that there are many posters on this thread who have a very strong emotional investment in the belief that it makes no difference to a child how they are fed in the first few months of life.

It was a poor response Starlight. I was the poster who referred to bf coordinators / helpers whatever you want to call them as militant. You quoted this in the same sentence as the word 'guilty' and sidestepped when i asked you about it. You shouldn't preach on something you're not prepared discuss where issues don't fit your views.

double You're making things up to win an argument about goodness knows what.

I believe I have answered your question. If you don't like the reply that's hardly my fault.

Shagmund I don't think people do have a strong emotional investment in the belief that it makes no difference to a child how it is feeding the first few months of its life.

I think they realise it is just ONE of many many choices we make which make a difference.

It's actually not a complex issue, it's a choice for each parent to make.

It makes a difference but it is a minuscule difference particularly when you compare it to other ideal parenting choices namely long term diet provision,provision of exercise,literacy exposure,amount of screen time etc,etc,etc even the school you chose and help with homework.

Nobody has a problem with the promotion of breast feeding or any other promotion for ideal parenting choices along the road.What people have a problem with is scaremongering,stat twisting and a complete lack of perspective which thankfully doesn't exist in most of the other parenting choices we have to make on a daily,weekly and even yearly basis.

I actually think the breast feeding agenda gets in the way of real problems.

Are babies dying in this country solely because they are formula fed? No.

Perhaps if all of these people getting so militant about breast feeding put the same energy into getting women with pnd more support, supporting mothers in DV situations they'd be doing a lot more good.

Yanbu.

Actually, there are many other issues that concern me more than increasing the rates of breastfeeding in my country (Italy).

I am well aware that bf is a also a political issue, but it is not in my top ten priorities list.

'Do we actually have any evidence that the social democrat politicians who introduced the Scandinavian welfare state were breastfed? '

Nope. But they serve the women voters who, on the whole were, but importantly, do. It is the doing that triggers the oxytocin in the women who bf, rather than received in the baby.

Except that when the welfare state was introduced in Sweden the women voters, on the whole, were NOT breastfeeding. In fact at that time breastfeeding rates were at an all time low of just 30% and had been for several decades.

double - women DO feel guilty for choosing not to breastfeed or for stopping to breastfeed.

If they didn't feel guilty they wouldn't feel such a strong need to justify their decisions with explanations of their difficulties with breastfeeding.

Also, just to make sure they're taking a 'belt and braces' approach to the issue, they have to try to make a case for breastfeeding being largely irrelevant to babies (because if breastfeeding makes no difference to babies then there's nothing to feel bad about if you don't do it), and to describe a scenario where they have been victimised by people trying to force them into breastfeeding (pile on the sympathy with a trowel).

Really - the discussions always involve these same elements.

You know, if you don't think breastfeeding makes a difference to babies then it doesn't matter whether you do it or not. So no need for explanations. It's fine to say - I didn't want to do it. Just that. And explain that it doesn't make a difference to babies any way.

'Except that when the welfare state was introduced in Sweden the women voters, on the whole, were NOT breastfeeding. In fact at that time breastfeeding rates were at an all time low of just 30% and had been for several decades.'

That is still much higher than in the UK and infinately so when compared to the US. But the point is that their welfare state hasn't erroded like ours has.

Of course it can't be as simple as bfing being the ONLY factor, but I believe it does have a role.

Shagmund, some women feel guilty. Some don't.

No one should be made to feel guilty.

"On another note, I think that there are many posters on this thread who have a very strong emotional investment in the belief that it makes no difference to a child how they are fed in the first few months of life."

I don't believe that it makes any difference to an adult how they were fed in the first few months of life. And isn't that the point of being a parent? To produce a fully functioning, well adjusted adult?

There are millions of things that will actually have an effect on how a child grows up and the sort of adults they become: how/how much you talk to your child, how much you read to them, how involved you are in school/homework, the activities they take part in, how loving/caring you are with them, level of discipline, their school, friendship groups, what they eat growing up etc but I don't see endless threads about any of these subjects.

I love it when people come out with guff about how it makes kids more intelligent or builds better communities though. How would you ever prove this when there are far too many variables at play?

"I am well aware that bf is a also a political issue, but it is not in my top ten priorities list."

It's a priority issue for me because

• babies can't advocate for themselves
• there are huge, powerful commercial interests involved in this issue
• there are class issues involved (babies who are never breastfed in the UK are overwhelmingly more likely to come from the most impoverished backgrounds)
• babies shouldn't be the only group of people for whom the importance of a diet of fresh food is routinely dismissed.
• that thousands of babies in the UK will experience higher levels of sickness, hospital admissions and antibiotic treatment because they have not had access to an optimal diet, despite the fact that this optimal diet is (for the only time ever in their lives) free, and pretty much universally available.

Tosh Shag there are plenty of parenting ideals I've failed miserably in which have far bigger impact on my dc and which I hold my hand up to eg screen time,the times I'm not exactly the best role model,not being more proactive in my choice of school etc,etc

The fact is as. I keep saying it's a marathon not a sprint and overall I'm clearly doing a good job as the results speak forcthemselves so quite frankly I'll keep things in perspective if you don't mind- for all my choices not just bfing.

Hope that suits if not tough titty(if you'll excuse the pun).

• that thousands of babies in the UK will experience higher levels of sickness, hospital admissions and antibiotic treatment because they have not had access to an optimal diet, despite the fact that this optimal diet is (for the only time ever in their lives) free, and pretty much universally available.

Where is the evidence for this absolute rubbish

"I love it when people come out with guff about how it makes kids more intelligent or builds better communities though. How would you ever prove this when there are far too many variables at play?"

Exactly the same way you prove that feeding them on a balanced diet in later childhood, or not smoking all over them, or not smoking or drinking while they're in the womb, results in a healthier child and better development: with research which attempts to control for as many of these variables as possible.

But you know - you can disregard research on any aspect of your child's health, if it suits you not to believe it. I'd really hope that before you dismiss it as 'guff' you've read it. Preferable the full paper. That you've given it a decent amount of your time and consideration. That you've taken into account previous research findings (which you've also read and understood). That you are aware of the range of critical responses to a piece of research, and how the research was constructed.

And that you don't gather your evidence on any important issues to do with your child's health and development on the basis of articles you've read in the Daily Mail.

And maybe that you don't dismiss and sneer at the sincere beliefs of other people on the basis of a very sketchy understanding of the evidence.

"double - women DO feel guilty for choosing not to breastfeed or for stopping to breastfeed."

Women feel guilty because other shitty women make them feel guilty.