to think MN shouldn't support boots co-advertising newborn bottle sets and "follow on" milk

[ICBINEG]

when there's a national campaign on to promote BF?

Presumably this advert passes the letter of the law regarding the non-advertising/non-special offers on formula for new born's but it defies the spirit in every way possible.

AIBU to expect a little more social responsibility from MN?

Queen nobody gets annoyed when figures are posted to back up a claim. In this case, if we saw the figures and the OP was correct, we would admit that. As we have not seen these figures, after repeated requests by several posters, we must assume they don't exist.

pumpkin it costs them in the treatment of illness that are more common in FF babies.

It is a tiny difference in risk for each baby but added up over millions of babies it is significant.

The cost to the NHS is in the increased incidence of gastro-enteritis and other conditions in formula fed babies.

Its important to eat a healthy balanced diet, whatever. No that wouldnt guilt trip me.

Id be more likely to be wallowing in a pit of guilt and thinking of the social implications of FF my baby TBH as I was when I had to last time, though I realise this to be my issue.

We need to stop picking holes in each other over this issue, I am regularly aghast by some of the comments I see on here about formula feeding and it makes everyone touchy I suppose.

As far as advertising goes, yes that would be no loss, as long as health care professionals are equipped and able to provide information instead, however when I was in hospital the mere mention of formula had them shitting their pants and running off. Im not even exaggerating.

pumpkin are you serious?

It costs, because in general people who have been FF are more unhealthy than those who have been BF. This is a general trend and observed over whole lifetimes.

I don't know what figures you mean grumpy but I was talking about the poster who was reporting the OP for saying formula feeding costs the NHS millions every year.

It does. That's fact and can be backed up with figures and research.

Pumpkin, it costs the NHS money because at a population level breasted babies are healthier than formula fed babies.

Alibaba I couldn't breastfeed. I wasn't pressured to use formula. My child physically refused to be BF. Given the choice between FF and letting my son starve, I'll take FF.

I think if you looked at how much the nhs spends treating alcohol related illness and injury or obesity you would find it adds up to far more and yet advertising cheap alcohol and unhealthy foods is still legal....

I can't actually believe I am being asked to provide evidence that advertising has an affect on people's decisions.

I mean really? Its a fecking multi-billion pound industry.

There are lots of proper primary research papers on this but I can't access them from home.

From non-proprietary sources you could look at the countries that banned advertising and see how their BF rates jump up to like 99% afterwards...

Well i didn't know that as all my dc were healthy as am i and my sister.
Whereas my dbro died of cancer aged 16-he was bf, we were not.

The cost to the NHS is in the increased incidence of gastro-enteritis and other conditions in formula fed babies.

Queen - the incidence of gastro-enteritis could be reduced with better education in hospital for those that need it in terms of making up bottles. Its still quite apparent from the feeding boards that some people are not aware of the new guidelines of making bottles.

Queen so post the links. Proof, evidence. We have yet to see anything but opinion.

There is an awful lot of talk about how formula is pushed onto new mothers but very little about how breast feeding is pushed despite it not always being the best option for that child or mother.
I have personally experienced a 'breast feeding counsellor' employed in a hospital which banned the use of formula in the hospital unless the baby was in SCBU. This woman barged into my room, grabbed hold of my breast without my permission and forced it into my DD's mouth while I was trying to latch her on. She gave me an unwanted lecture about the evils of formula, despite me making it known to her that DD was my second child and I was fully capable of making my own decision. In the end I had to have her removed from my room. My daughter came very close to ending up in SCBU because her blood sugar wouldn't stabilise due to her not getting anything from me. I had to get a family member to smuggle in formula and bottles in order to get DD fed and us discharged from hospital.
Let formula be advertised. Let mothers make their own informed choices without being subjected to self righteous shite like this.

I don't think 'breast is best'

I think breastmilk is the normal food for a human baby and that advertising (and thus idealising) anything different should not be allowed.

I also think that formula is a life saver and we are extremely lucky to live in a country where it is available and we have the resources to prepare it correctly.

I think parents deserve accurate unbiased information about feeding their baby.

I don't think formula companies are best placed to provide this.

fairy yes indeed. But legislation on that has and will continue to come out. Junk food can't be advertised while children are watching etc.

Minimum alcohol price per unit etc. and of course the ban on fag adverts.

Generally when the NHS can save money by early intervention it happens....eventually.

It's a question of ethics. Women who use formula milk, for whatever reason, should be able to select the brand and formulation based on good information - their babies' health depends on getting this right.

Instead they get marketing, 'free' fluffy toys and other bits of tat, sky-high prices, with each brand trying to tell you they are the 'best' or 'better' or 'better than ever' or 'new and improved' or 'now with [insert technical sounding ingredient]'. With infant formula, the brands are pretty identical nutritionally in terms of quality, though the exact ingredients may vary - they have to be like that, otherwise they don't meet international and national regulations. Speciality formulas, follow ons and toddler milks are not subject to same regs, and may well differ....though you would find it hard to know, because full information is not easily accessible to the public - they'd rather you went with fluff and marketing, because that is, apparently, what sells product.

That's what's insulting to parents - that unless they hunt very hard, that's all they can get. Do you think Brand X causes more wind or colic or constipation or reflux than Brand Y? Is there published research on this to help you work out if changing the formula you use is worth doing? No - you have to experiment.

I know that MNetters are a special breed and they, uniquely among the human race, are impervious to marketing, but the rest of the world is not. I'd ask this though: those of you who use formula, how did you choose which brand to pick? Marketing will have played some small role in that - even if it was the marketing that worked on your mother :) (like soap powders, consumers are strongly drawn to the brand they remember from childhood).

Ethical marketing would be making all formula widely available at a consistently low price, with minimal branding and no advertising. Information about preparation and storage, and different ingredients, would be easily and clearly available.

The same goes for bottles and teats.

None of this stuff needs to be advertised to tell people bottle/formula feeding is an option for them - I think everyone knows that babies can use bottles, without seeing advertisements. A lack of advertising does not imply judgement on the people who use the product - I have never seen an ad for a coat hanger, or a pencil, or a washing up bowl but I use all these products daily without feeling people are judging me :)

Op YABVU.

I decided to FF my child. I never considered BF as I didn't want to do this. I made the decision myself. Even though the whole way through my pregnancy all midwives talked about was breast feeding.

Formula companies do not advertise first stage milk as it is illegal. They are allowed to advertise follow on milk.

From what I've read on this Op you've basically said that people who bottle feed are socially irresponsible, makes their children unhealthy.

To me you are basically telling me that my son is worse off as I've formula fed him.

Maybe it's time you wise up a bit Op. Woman are as stupid as you make us out to be.

Advertising never swayed me either way with any of my dc.
It was through personal choice that i ff fed them and due to not being able to carry on with it.

I don't think a woman watches an advertisment and bases her decision on it.

Link to UNICEF report - you have to follow a further link for the full text.

pumpkin I used the phrase "on average" for a reason. You can't tell the difference between a BF child and FF child, but you can tell the difference between 1000 BF children and 1000 FF children.

pumpkin I have no issue with how you fed your child, I have no issue with how any individual in this country feeds their child. You are looking for censure where there is none.

And in relation to your dbro, I am very sorry for your loss. Obviously though anecdote does not equal data. There will be many healthy people who have been FF, and many unhealthy who have been BF. The trend is on a population level, not individual.

pumpkin I am glad you don't base important decisions on advertising. Neither do I. But advertising would not be the major player in our society that it is if everyone was like you and me....

I think bf is more forced onto women.
It shouldn't be as it is a personal choice.

OP

BF v FF stats IMO are so unreliable because they never factor in mitigating factors that skew results. For example. The fact far more FF feed babies come from different socio economic backgrounds.

No-one can know for sure what he actual difference are for FF to BF.

I am interested to know OP do you have any stats that show FF v BF for children from similar backgrounds, locations and genetic disposition?

Where I live I do not see ANY obese children, some have been FF some BF but the influence is socio economic factors not feeding methods.

Maybe instead of getting so worked up about FF you could channel your energy into helping under privileged children mothers and campaigning for them.