to be upset that friends don't take DS into consideration?

[DharmaBums]

first time posting on MN, but I needed to rant to someone! I have a group of 5 or so friends, all without children. They've arranged a girlie get together(which is nice, but only arranged by said friend as she's been on fantastic holiday and wants to brag, sorry, share, her stories ((Not bitter really!))).

The brunch is planned for a weekend at a rather posh and stuck up restaurant which is NOT child friendly! Last time they made me leave my buggy on the street as they didn't want it inside the premises (there was room inside).

My DH works on weekends (they know this) and I don't have anyone to leave DS with, so if I want to go I need to bring my DS. Sitting at a posh restaurant on a sunday afternoon for a couple of hours with my 2.5 yr old DS is not my idea of a fun time, and thats if he even sits still, doesn't have a tantrum and doesn't throw food for 10 mins! I wouldn't mind so much but this is the millionth time I've tried to explain what it's like to have a 2.5 year old!!

At the end of my rope with said group of friends, and ready to have a tantrum of my own. Advice needed from wise MN on dealing with it and still maintaining friendships whilst getting my point across to them!

Hmm...I know what you're saying, Dharma but I'm not sure that being interested in you necessarily means they do have to want to spend any time with DC. Obviously, I don't know your friends and how keen they are on children, but liking someone doesn't necessarily mean suddenly being keen to accept their new interests, IYSWIM. Would you be interested in a friend's new job? Or would it be a passing, 'are you busy at work?'. What you are asking them to do is spend 2 hours with a small child, and they may well not want to. If one of them suddenly developed a passion for playing ladies football would you be prepared to stand on the sidelines for 90 minutes on a cold Saturday afternoon cheering them on, or would you simply say, 'how's the footy going?'

I know DS is a huge part of your life - kids are, obviously. But I don't know that you can automatically assume that your friends will be keen to embrace your new life. It sounds to me like they are happy to see you on the same terms as before - ie all girls together. I don't like dogs much . And I know it's not the same as children (obviously), but I have a friend who bought a puppy that she thought was ADORABLE - and treats him like a child. But I don't actually want her hairy-arsed, badly behaved, huge, bouncing animal coming round to my house with her. (And if I'm honest, I don't really want to go to hers for coffee now that it means her dog has his chin on my lap and is panting and drooling all over me, or standing up and putting his paws on my shoulders). You know your friends, and I don't, but maybe they don't want to spend time with you if it DOES include a small child racing round. Either way, it's clear that this brunch won't be a child friendly occasion, I'm afraid.

OP - you have 2 choices here, either 1) decline the invite saying it's not going to be suitable for DS so you'll miss it this time and you hope everyone has fun or 2) suggest the weekend after or weekend before if you can get a babysitter those dates. (but don't be upset if they can't do those, they will go with the majority date, only fair)

If you do 1 - I suggest you also send a message saying "by the way, evenings are a lot easier for me these days as [DH] is home to look after [DS] and [DS] is no longer at a stage where it's easy to take him along to meals and us be able to chat without the whole thing being about him! Is anyone free on X, Y or Z night for a couple of glasses of wine/a meal out?" then you arrange for one you know DH will be in and you can do.

If you are able to change the date, while you are there, can you make a point that it's so much easier with DS these days for meals, so again, keep repeating that evenings are better.

Sowornout. You are so right. Great post.

Dharma, going back to the practical - would you consider using a professional babysitting agency? My childminder (who's rated outstanding by Ofsted and is utterly wonderful) works for an agency sometimes. She gets asked for now by certain families. If you took the plunge maybe you'd find another childcare option?

Otherwise, if you've really exhausted all your babysitting possibilities, I would just sadly sit this one out. I have 2 dcs, but would have utterly hated taking them to a get together like this. Even though, we often eat in restaurants as a family - I would never relax enough to enjoy any girlie conversation.

Don't you ever want to just go and chat to the girls and feel free for an hour or two? God, I'd go mad without my child free coffee catch ups.

Part of parenthood is actually arranging babysitters, and leaving your young child home in safe capable hands, rather to drag them out to boring restaurants. It is not fair on other diners, and not fair on your child either!

I honestly dont understand how some parents fail to understand that bringing their child to every friggin event is inappropriate. If they want a nice posh lunch or evening out, why on earth does this give you the right to insist your child is in tow?

OP, you may feel you have grown up, or out-matured them, but I think you need to grow up some more and understand that cute as your child is, he does not belong in absolutely all social settings.

I agree with sowornout.
They are getting together with the girls, for chat, wine, good food, laughter, and your ds isn't invited. If it were me, I wouldn't want to take him either! If these girls are your friends then arrange a babysitter, if you're not that bothered then decline. It's not difficult.
YABU

pureQuintessence who said anything about "grown-up or "out maturing" people? And who's insisting on dragging DC to every event? If you'd read the OP you might realise that's not what I'm getting at.

But thanks for the feedback as I'd never even considered getting a babysitter

I read your OP Dharma, and the subsequent posts.

Your comment "My DS would be running around the restaurant like a mad fool, but I actually like the fact that he doesn't just sit around placidly." says it all. Nobody else is remotely interested in your child, get over yourself. I have a friend who allows her toddler to run around restaurants like that and it's astounding how oblivious she is to the filthy looks people direct toward her and her very annoying child (not his fault obviously) who is constantly pestering them. We live in an area where most people like and smile at children, I've only ever seen horrible reactions when out with her and her kid in response to his hideous behaviour and her constant adoring/oblivious gaze. Nobody wants to be in the company of someone like that or seen out in public with them. Nobody's impressed.

I would bet anything that your friends have purposely chosen the posh restaurant where they know you feel unwelcome bringing your son in the hopes that it will encourage you to get a babysitter or stay at home. That way they don't have to hurt your feeling by telling you the truth of how they really feel and their meet up doesn't get ruined (along with all the other diners meals).

catwomanlikesmeatballs you are making some broad assumptions there, assuming that 1. they wouldn't tell me and 2. I'd actually be comfortable letting him run around like that....bit passive aggressive really. But maybe that's how you roll based on your rant about your "friends" child..

It's a shame when you have to miss out on something, but I think YABU.

Your friends want to do something specific - a nice, weekend brunch in a posh, adult restaurant. They're clearly quite content for you to bring your child (and not everyone would be - there have been plenty of threads about that on here) and they've given his routine some consideration, but it's hardly fair to expect them to also effectively ditch their plan and do something else instead.

I don't think it is unreasonable to expect your friends to consider you to the extent of sometimes doing things which you can attend with your child, or attending child-free things that you arrange at a convenient time for you, but I do think it is unreasonable to effectively expect them to not do something the five of them want to do because it isn't convenient for you. It's not as though you can never go to anything they arrange - you do have two babysitting options, just not for this particular date. When you have small children you get used to taking your nights/lunches out whenever you can and in whatever form you can manage. Before children you have the luxury of choosing where, when and how - you can't expect them to entirely give up their right to whatever social life they want just because one member of their group no longer has quite the full range of options that they have.

Even if they changed this to a different type of gathering, what would happen the next time one of them fancied a posh weekend lunch? Are they simply not allowed to arrange something that you can't do? I think you just have to accept that you have to give this one a miss. Plenty of people miss out on things that their friendship groups do for all sorts of reasons - it's hard to arrange something that suits everyone. It's just one of those things.

It's a shame that their seems to be such personal attacks on dharma, give it a break. She is just asking some opinions andfirst time on the site ... Cat woman, your post is in no way helpful to the question asked.
This is supposed to be a site where people feel comfortable to post their problems and not be the receiver of personal attacks based on Assumptions

And what sowornout said!

I don't see personal attacks

I see people disagreeing with the OP - as they are quite entitled to do when someone posts specifically asking for advice.

I'm with sowornout - it's useful for us all to remember sometimes that our children are more interesting to us than to other people. That's not such a bad thing

'Nobody else is remotely interested in your child, get over yourself.'

'I would bet anything that your friends have purposely chosen the posh restaurant where they know you feel unwelcome bringing your son in the hopes that it will encourage you to get a babysitter or stay at home.'

The above are from catwoman ... Those are personal and based on assumptions made of the OP and child. How do you know this?! I agree we all have our own opinion, But put it across less aggressively and based on fact. Then it becomes a constructive comment.

Thanks swek! As a first time poster I am slightly surprised at the number of outright personal attacks comments you get on MN...example Catwoman's quote "get over yourself" . WTF?

I can take criticism/opinions as much as the next MN but am starting to feel as if the rumours about the bitchiness on MN are true. Sorry to all the supportive, objective MN - don't want to lump you in with the "bad lot"

That's not a personal attack!

Plenty of people on MN are told to get over themselves.

"Get over yourself" = not a personal attack
"Get over yourself, you utter dick" = personal attack

OP don't be put off. :) You do sometimes come across posters on MN who can't seem to express an alternative opinion without being unpleasant with it. But most can do so in a polite pleasant manner. I just try and remember that people give an impression of themselves with their posts, and leave it at that.

It more the 'Nobody else is remotely interested in your child' that I think is unnecessary, not 'get over yourself'. Plus swearing is not necessarily any more aggressive then other words. I am all for a good debate and other opinions.

Agreed flowery, well said.

That's that poster's opinion. Disagree with it, by all means, but you can't realistically call it a personal attack.

I wasn't terribly interested in other people's children pre-DS1 and I don't expect everyone to be interested in mine now.

Sorry OP but YABU. Your friends' plans don't have to be made with your child in mind. You can't expect them to understand how it affects you if they are not parents - and why should they?

It is up to you to arrange babysitter/childcare. If you can't, and the venue is not child-friendly, send your apologies and invite them all over to yours to catch up another time.

It sucks to miss out on get togethers with friends, but when you have a toddler that's the way it goes sometimes.

I'm afraid it's a babysitter or sit this one out OP, your mates want a nice civilized adult meal and that's just not going to happen with a toddler!

Once you have kids things tend to divide neatly into three categories - Sprogs Essential / Sprogs Allowed / Sprogs An Act Of Social Suicide. This is definitely No. 3!

This is a lot of drama over nothing.

You tell them you can't go as you haven't got a baby sitter. They either say, never mind see you soon, or they offer to meet on a different day. You will know then if they want the child as well or not.

If you don't want to go to this restaurant, ever, then you just say that and see them another time.

nannyl - do you mean to sound as smug and looking-down-on-everyone-who-isn't-like-you as you do?

OP - have you tried moving it to the weekend before/after if that would mean one of your two babysitters would be available? Because it sounds like you've accepted they have a perfect right to arrange a non-child friendly thing, it's just that because of the particular date you can't get alternative childcare so have to not go or take your DS which will you know will be a nightmare.

If you try asking your babysitters if they could do one of the weekend's before or after, then call your friends and say you can't bring DS to that event, would they mind terribly moving it to X or Y date instead, if not, you hope they have fun and you're up for dinner one evening instead if that works for them.

You might find that while you might need to miss some of their group met ups due to not getting childcare now your DS is no longer in the 'easily portable' stage, that doesn't mean you have to miss them all if you are prepared to get involved in organising things for times you can do. They'll be other time pressures your other friends have so some of them might on occassion miss meet ups, it's just having DS you have more time constraints than they do.

OP, you sound very ambivalent about this event anyway. You've referred to the restaurant as being "stuck up" which doesn't sound like a ringing endorsement to me.

As a person without children, I can say that if I'd planned a nice lunch out with five girlfriends and one of them rocked up with a 2.5 year old toddler then I would be inwardly seething. Contrary to what some on MN think not everyone without children lives a glamorous life of cocktails, shoe shopping and entertaining lovers. For me a nice lunch with friends would be something of a rare treat, I'd save up for it, and would really enjoy it - so a rampaging toddler would be the last thing I (or any of the other diners, I guess) would want.

Other OPs are right, whether you like it or not, other people are just not that into your DC. I will ask about them, maybe chat about them for a bit, happily coo over some pics, but share a lunchdate? No way. You've already said this toddler will be running round the restaurant which is a safety hazard as well (both for restaurant staff and for your DC). Children do alter the social dynamic of a outing - you may not notice it, but trying to converse with someone who is simultaneously wrangling a toddler is very difficult. Please leave the toddler at home, or suggest an alternative. There are masses of things you can do as a group that could involve your DC, but this is not one of them.