Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

worst situation due to landlord!! (any tenants' rights lawyers?)

174 replies

oinkyoink · 10/01/2013 10:21

i am in such a bad situation and thought i would come on here for advice and opinions... we are renting our house since last february 2012 and the landlord mentioned it would be a long-term let which was great. as we had the contract for the first year feb 2012 to feb 2013 which was to be renewed annually with 8 weeks notice, we emailed the landlord in october 2012 to let him know we really wanted to stay in the house and avoid any last minute dramas of being given notice. my dd who is 3.5 will be starting reception in Sep 2013 and so I have just submitted her application based on this address.
what did the landlord do after replying in Oct to our email to say yes that would be fine to renew in Feb 2013 for another year? He called us on 20 Dec to say he had a last minute change of mind and needs his house back. (we had a great Christmas... not).
I have applied for my daughter's school based on this address and I am in a bad situation whereby the catchment for the school is extremely small and so we can only basically move along this road or along the road parallel to this one. We have approached the landlord to explain that we need to be here until end of May due to having to send proof of address after the school offers are made on 17 April. he replied to say sorry, he is not being unreasonable in wanting his home back and good luck with our daughter's schooling. How nasty can one person be? It is a crucial time for us as a family and he doesn't give a damn. I am not sure what to do now... He has said we can stay until end of March but this doesn't help. I have worked so hard at trying to get my daughter into a good school and I cannot give up now. Apart from the schooling issue, we are a young family with two children who have been upheaved out of their home. We do not have family in the UK. I am very stressed out as you can imagine.
Opinions appreciated.

OP posts:
CinnabarRed · 10/01/2013 12:48

One other thought.

Suppose you do get your DD into the school you current want, and then end up moving a significant distance away - what if the school run is then unmanageable? Wouldn't that be a disaster?

Wouldn't it be better to accept that you're not going to be at your current addess very shortly, and focus all of your energy on finding your new home before the school admissions deadline. That way you know where you stand.

I do sympathise, BTW, having been renting myself in the past. But I fear you're getting too fixated on the short term at the expense of the long term.

FairyJen · 10/01/2013 12:49

Op you are going to have to contact them tho. Hoping they won't notice etc so you cen stay longer is not going to make the situation go away or give you a decent reference for the future

BlackAffronted · 10/01/2013 13:00

Why should the poor LL have to incur court/baliff costs just because you want a good school? Thats awful :(

RyleDup · 10/01/2013 13:06

Why should the poor LL have to incur court/baliff costs just because you want a good school? Thats awful

presumably the landlord would ask for the court to get the tenant to pay the costs.

pluCaChange · 10/01/2013 14:15

" he is well within his rights to do this, its just one of the issues that comes with renting. if you want stability for you and your family then you need to save for a deposit."

What a charmer you are, MILF [sic]. More likely just lucky. Did you know that the average afe of a first time buyer without parental help is 37?

There's no point accusing the OP of being precious about, or feeling "entitled" to, the school, when the landlord/agents also seem to feel "entitled" enough to break the law by trying to get a tenant to leave without obeying the law

holidaysarenice · 10/01/2013 14:59

As a landlord and as a tenant I would be very wary of staying beyond the contract date.

You will lose your deposit. You will have to move eventually. You will not get a reference. Your credit rating may well get affected. If baliffs/small courts etc are instructed very quickly you will have huge bills. A small court judgement against you will give you a ccj, so your credit will be shot. And rental agencies share info about troublesome clients - beware getting anywhere else.

I think ur ll has been reasonable and you slightly hysterical, you have over 3 months to find somewhere else. I would very much suggest looking for other places to live rather than trying to stay beyond the date.

trixiefey · 10/01/2013 15:04

As a landlord myself, I do sympathise with the idea that they shouldn't be forced to incur lots of legal costs, but you have the right to be served proper notice, and the landlord would not occur additional expenses until the notice period was up. If no notice is issued prior to March, I would wait until then, and then point out they have't followed procedures, and that will buy you the time until May. And you can use the extra months to find a new place a sensible distance from the school.

Original poster
oinkyoink · 10/01/2013 15:15

trixie thanks - nice, normal advice... I will seek free legal advice on the situation.

Please everyone calm down I don't like to think your heart rates are affected by my post. We won't stay longer than the end of tenancy date so relax. It's just trying to get that time extended legally. What annoyed me most, was that the ll offered us the renewal and when I wanted the big gap fixed I got the call to tell us to leave. Hmm... Coincidence with suddenly needing his house back? Me thinks not... Possible yes, but more like he's a ll who doesn't like doing repairs for his tenants who pay a lot of rent and keep his house exceptionally well.

OP posts:
EllieArroway · 10/01/2013 15:24

Not quite true, holiday. She won't lose her deposit unless she actually owes the LL rent for money for damages - and eviction doesn't generate a CCJ Hmm

Hope you can find somewhere new, oink :)

marchwillsoonbehere · 10/01/2013 15:28

but more like he's a ll who doesn't like doing repairs for his tenants who pay a lot of rent and keep his house exceptionally well

Sheer conjecture OP: I would be mildly interested to hear the ll's version (but fear not, it's having no effect on my heart rate). I have been a landlord only once for a flat that I had lived in for several years before letting it. In all that time I had not a single issue with its maintenance, but my tenant kept up a constant demand of niggles and (non) complaints although admittedly she was an excellent tenant in every other respect. So when the lease was I up I just could not wait to terminate the contract and sell the place...it was far less hassle that way. Obviously I have no idea, but it could be that this is where your ll is coming from. But as with you, this is sheer conjecture.

DontmindifIdo · 10/01/2013 15:31

Yes, if your landlord hasn't issued a s21, I'd say nothing until maybe the last week of March and then tell them, that will give you another 8 weeks. hopefully, past the deadline by then. They can't give you a bad reference for refusing to leave when they didn't actually give you the notice to ask you to leave...

However, start looking like mad for a property in the right area, and speak to the school, tell them that you are coming to the end of your tenancy agreement with your landlord, you have asked to remain, and (little white lie time!) you expect they will renew, but you wanted to check the situation if they don't and you'd already applied with this address and have to move between applying and the place being allocated. You could mention that you of course would try to stay in the same area... Most schools would be sympathic to that situation, that's a reasonable question to ask.

FunnysInLaJardin · 10/01/2013 15:33

what big gap?

BettySwollocksandaCrustyRack · 10/01/2013 15:36

Oink - it probably is coincidence though. No sane LL would give tenants notice just because they asked him to do one thing....a good tenant is worth their weight in gold (as is a good LL) so unless you were a complete nightmare tenant (which I am sure you weren't) then it will be coincidence.

Original poster
oinkyoink · 10/01/2013 15:48

There is a big gap between hall door and frame of door which needs repairing...

Indeed it probably is coincidence. Lets give him the benefit of the doubt.

OP posts:
DontmindifIdo · 10/01/2013 15:56

oh, and ask around your local friends if anyone knows any rentals available in your area, I know a couple who will be on the market soon near us but aren't being advertised currently, you might be able to get in a little earlier - or have a set date to say to your landlord along the lines of "we can move into a new property on 20th April, could you extend until then?" That's less like "I need to stay here for a few months" but a set leave date.

Original poster
oinkyoink · 10/01/2013 16:05

Yes this is the kind of reasonable dialogue I would have expected with the landlord. Perhaps something like "we will start looking now and if we find something then we would like to move immediately so as to get the best possible house for our preferred school and also to free up your house". We basically need him to understand that if we do find something with a suitable address we need to act fast iyswim. This will help us and him in that we won't be restricted to leaving exactly at end of March for example, and then having to watch houses that are suitable come and go.

OP posts:
DontmindifIdo · 10/01/2013 16:18

Start looking now anyway, if he wants the house back, if you called and said "could we end on 2ndweek of March" I'm sure he's say yes. But if you need to pay for 2 places for a couple of weeks, it's shit but better than not getting yoru DD in a school you want.

DontmindifIdo · 10/01/2013 16:19

And definately ask around!

purpleflower123 · 10/01/2013 16:21

The section 21 needs to be issued 2 months in advance, as you have agreed to extend your tenancy until the end of March doesn't it mean they have until the end of January to issue it?

Original poster
oinkyoink · 10/01/2013 16:35

But shouldn't they have served a s21 notice after they called us to say we had to leave end of Feb? We only negotiated the extra time until end March with the landlord ourselves over the Xmas period and this is when they sent the Memoradum of agreement for end of march extension. Shouldn't they have sent a s21 notice too?

OP posts:
yellowsheep · 10/01/2013 16:42

Have a simular story landlord said we can stay for as long as we wanted...... After 3 years in the place we started to make big improvements to the garden house decorating flowers boarders etc.... Then was given 2 months notice to leave... We moved Xmas eve luckily kids are still in the same school and our new home is lovely bit I hate the fact that all I get is 2 months norice and it could happen again anytime?? :(

EllieArroway · 10/01/2013 17:09

Phone calls & memorandums are entirely irrelevant, oink.

Whenever it was that they wanted you out, they should have sent a S21 notice two months earlier.

They wanted you out on Feb 25th, right? It couldn't have been any earlier than that because that would have meant they were asking to leave during your AST which is even more illegal. So the ONLY valid notice that could have been issued in order to have you out by that date was one that you received on or before December 25th informing you that possession would be required AFTER Feb 25th 2013.

They cannot send the notice now on the basis that, well, we did tell you it was coming so what's the difference? You physically had to have had the notice either in your hand or delivered to your property on or before December 25th.

Nothing else that could have happened - calls, emails, memorandums - would be legal.

Personally, I would ring the agents and ask in all innocence "When are you actually planning to send the Section 21 notice then?"

They'll hang up and go......"Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuk". Because they have screwed up massively.

Original poster
oinkyoink · 10/01/2013 17:22

ellie the memorandum states that the "ll and the tenant agree that the term referred to in the tenancy agreement be extended from 23 feb 13 to 22 match 13.

Terms of tenancy agreement shall continue in full force.

Rent shall be at £x per week.

In event if conflict or inconsistencies between tenancy agreement and memorandum, the terms of memorandum shall prevail. "

That's it. What do you think?

It's funny as in pencil is written that we are not to date the memorandum however we are required to sign it????

OP posts:
TinyDiamond · 10/01/2013 17:25

sorry to gear you're unsure where you're going to be. we rent too and its crappy sometimes. I would suggest you print off loads of little notices saying something like 'young professional family looking for a longterm let in the area, please contact us if you or anyone you know are considering renting your property out' then list your basic requirements (no of bedrooms etc) so as not to waste anyone else's time and cross your fingers tightly. if you contact the school now and get a printout of the catchment then you can make sure you're flyering the right houses. we found our current house this way. it has the added benefit of cutting out the middle man and saving agency fees. we have had no probs dealing with landlord direct and not an agent. obvs this would be up to the landlord but its something you could suggest should you find a property. good luck!

EllieArroway · 10/01/2013 17:50

Did you tell them, oink that you would move out at the end of the term then? Because if you did, then they have clearly just assumed there was no need for notice to be given. Often, in practice, when LL & tenant have harmoniously agreed the end of a tenancy then an S21 isn't bothered with. That might explain what's gone wrong. The memorandum, in that case, just adds something to your AST to clarify matters. What they are hoping to avoid is a new tenancy being created - which is what does happen ordinarily.

But it makes no odds to the position that you're in. You have not received a valid notice so are under not the slightest obligation to even consider moving out until you do so.

Where does 23rd Feb come in? I thought 26th Feb was your rent day. What does it say about that on your TA?