to think that losing weight isn't as complicated as it's made out to be?

[upsylazy]

NB I am not saying that losing weight is EASY as i have learned from personal experience. But there do seem to be this plethora of methods, books, videos, personal plans out there about it. Through my lifetime, I've had to listen to people drone on endlessly abouy the grapefruit diet, the F plan diet, the Cambridge diet, diets where you can't mix food groups right up to Atkins and all the low carb stuff.
My understanding from biology at school is that food contains units of energy (calories) and I seem to remember this being demonstrated by burning a peanut and seeing how much it raised the temperature of a test tube of water.
The understanding I have is that if you consume more calories than you burn off, you'll put on weight and vice versa. I've never found that idea particularly complex. I don't doubt that a lot of these diets work but they can only work if you burn up more calories than you consume.
Also, can someone please please tell me why carbs have suddenly become so bad for you? I can understand that saturated fat is bad as it clogs up your arteries and that too much salt is bad as it can raise blood pressure and reduce bone density but what do carbs DO to you that make them so terible?
I'm sitting in an office with that food pyramid thingy on the wall which basically says that carbs are good and that your diet should contain more of them than meat or dairy products. So are they wrong about this?
I don't have a problem with things like weight watchers as I can see that group suport can be invaluable. It's just all the new books and plans and programmes which various people (none of whom seem to be dieticians) are obviously making a packet from. I am perfectly prepared to stand corrected BTW.

paleo/primal

To be honest, that, along with "raw vegan", their arch rival appears to be liberally tied in with money making opportunities.

My question is, why should people place a greater degree of trust in specific diets/gurus in an uncontrolled areana which is rife with money spinning attempts, and distrust dieticians (NOT nutritionsists, even I can call myself a nutricionist if I want to, right now, cos it is not a protected title) offering info via the NHS ?

Chipping, I do not see in my post anywhere that I say that it is a one size fits all and is the solution for everyone.

I lost 5 stone about 6 years ago, got to 9st 7lbs and was a size eight, I did that by not eating crap and moving a lot more. I then met my dp and put most of it back on, so yes for me the eat less and move more does work and when I started eating more and moving less guess what I put weight on. I am not naive in the slightest, I think I am being realistic.

Part of the problem is that the biology behind weight gain and loss is insanely complicated and still not very well understood. So it's fertile ground for snake oil merchants and well meaning ignoramuses.

There are loads of myths: for instance, most studies show (or seem to from my reading) that (on average) exercising more doesn't lead to weight loss. Exercise is certainly a good thing to do for other health reasons, but it makes people so hungry that they eat more to compensate. Similarly, as someone pointed out above, fruit is not all that good for you. Yes, it contains Vitamin C and a bit of fibre, but you can get that from vegetables which are mostly much less sugary and have other vitamins too.

I have done quite a bit of reading and still have no idea whether milk is good or bad for humans. I've read seemingly convincing arguments for both!

It's easy - can't stand people who moan about being fat and do nothing about it either!

Er... it's true, my two favourite Paleo and LCHF gurus both have books (in both cases, written after years of free blogging), but all the info and a lot of scientific links, studies and info is available FREE here,
robbwolf.com/ and here www.dietdoctor.com/lchf

You don't need to put your trust in anyone - it's up to you to read and decide for yourself but the NHS guidlines - not been working have they (remember the high carb, low fat message is only about 30 years old)

everyone i know who has low-carbed has always regained the weight.

So my sort of thread, as I have a degree in nutrition - completely agree with OP. All the diets in the world don't work.

There is only one thing that is scientifically proven to work and that is making a permanent lifestyle change to move more, eat more fruit and veg and eat less processed / fattening foods.

I have had to lose weight twice in my life. Once when I was 18 and 2 stone overweight and again when I was 26 and 1 1/2 st overweight. I did the same thing both times - it works 100% but it does require discipline.

BigBo unless you are diabetic your blood sugars are perfectly good at regulating themselves.

paleo/primeval

The evidence to support doesn't look brillant Few studies, Small sample sizes, not blind, no control group, non human testing, specific sub group only testing (diabetics) doesn't look exactly promising in terms of data to support.

I think the accusations from various bodies, including the NHS, calling it a fad diet probably aren't that wide of the mark.

Some people will do well on it regardless. Or well enough. Either becuase it suits them, they "cheat" and tweak outside of "da rules" till it does suit, or becuase a not insignificant number of proponants are refugees/exiles from even more extreme forms of restrictive eating like "30 bananas a day" style raw vegan and it is a stepping stone away from exercising obsessive control over what one eats.

Mooncup, milk is difficult - it is part of infants diet, and pale/white/northern humans appear to have evolved to retain the ability to digest milk better than other groups of humans into adulthood, because vitD is so lacking in the North, but milk also has a lot of (natural) sugars and growth hormones which adult animals shouldn't be eating (and may cause cancers and other illness)... I have taken the middle ground and eat the fat (cream, butter and cheese in small amounts), but not the milk.

I agree mummyonvalium

It takes time (remember you don't put 2 stone on in one week, so it won't come off quickly either) and it takes a lot of determination.

You can't be half-hearted about it.

Nancy, everyone i know who has low-carbed has always regained the weight.

That would be because they went back to eating the way they used to... ie the way that MADE them fat!

All diets fail, if you go back to doing what made you fat in the first place.

remember the high carb, low fat message is only about 30 years old

But the difference between the two "for profit" links you sent me to look for unbiased data and the NHS is that the NHS is open to change.

That is the whole point of evidence based advice . When new quality evidence becomes available via good quality studies that replicate statistically significant results, the NHS will change it's advice. Slowly, cos it is lumbering state, but change it will.

Anything profit base on the pther hand will rigedly stick to its belief/"facts" despite little to no evidence to support even in the face of ever greater wads of data that point to an inherant flaw in the underlying premise.

Plus, your issue with the NHS recommendations smack of the typical Paleo core belief that carbs are bad (especially ebil grains) and a substantial increased of fat intake is not bad. The fact that Paleo and other diet gurus claim the above to be true, doesn't necessarily make it so. The NHS isn't going to change its guidlines for an entire population on the basis of some fad diets say so. They want proof, in bulk, good quality proof at that. And rightly so.

To be fair, nancy66, most people who lose large amounts of weight using any method tend to regain it, I can't remember what the highly depressing statistic is exactly.

I also read, that if you lose weight, you just empty out your fat cells, they don't go away. So your body has lots of empty fat cells signalling 'help! empty fat cell! feeeeed meeeee!' which doesn't help.

yeah I know most dieters regain - it's why I don't really buy inot the 'no carb' thing. Carbs are fine.

The idea that you can't possibly have a slice of bread but you can eat two pounds of cheese is ludicrous.

Cut portions sizes, cut out the crap, move more....

Thanks SCOTCHandWRY, that is really useful!

I low carbed nearly three stone off me getting on for 10 years ago. I've gained about half a stone back in that time. Not bad for a menopausal, insulin resistant, self confessed greedy person

Nobody on a low carb diet says you can eat two pounds of cheese, Nancy

And a low carb diet is just that - low not no

isn't it what works for you that is important? This really all does stem from the physcological as mentioned earlier.

losing weight is not mystery in theory. Eat less, eat the right stuff - move more.

but there are a lot of behavioural traits that are easy in theory until you input the pyschological to the equation.

logically eat less and move more - yes indeed.

everone knows crisps and sweets are bad for you. its not a mystery.

also i should also point out that sugar is addictive, there are physiological traits to withdrawl.

if you want to lose weight - which was the statement and is not the same as eating healthily necessarily, then it must be an eating regime which will sustain you for life.

Atkins was all about how you can eat as much meat, fish, cheese, butter, cream as you want.

Have you read the Atkins diet Nancy or just articles about it?

Er - no it's not, Nancy. Suggest you read the book properly.

You can eat as much unprocessed meat and fish as you want, and butter. Cheese is restricted to 3-4oz per day and cream to 2-3 tablespoons per day. And in addition, your carbs must come from vegetables and salad - even in the first, strictest phase of his diet.

I usually agree with Worra on this issue and I still do.

I also think that we generally have lost sight of what 'hunger' really is. The slightest deviation from 'full' can send some racing for the biscuit tin. I think it's that which makes people fat(ter).

I come from a family that has always treated itself with food. Food has always been an occasion on its own really and it's quite unhealthy to think that way. I'm hoping our new family members don't pick that up... squirts of perfume for my niece (and nephew!) delight them. I don't know how I discovered that, but great!

Some of the stuff that people eat is pure junk. I know, on the very few occasions that I've eaten a McDonalds (I don't like them but LOVE Wimpys) - I don't feel as if I've eaten an hour later.

I firmly believe that all calories are not created equal... transfat calories will haunt the body for a heck of a lot longer than the same number of calories from 'good' fats.

As a last point, people here are saying that they eat like a 'thin' person and just gain weight. I personally know people who say the same and they don't eat like a thin person because they are constantly fixated with what they're eating, have eaten, will eat... their entire focus is on food and the ones that I know will never leave a delicious high calorie/fat thing on their plate although might well leave the vegetables. I have a friend who loves carveries... she loves them because she can eat as many potatoes and stodge as she likes - then go up and put more veg on her plate and 'leave it'... like a thin person.

Weight control is hugely emotive and I think it's that which needs to be tackled, ie. making it a non-secret, removing the excuses and the need to make them in the first place. Fat is just fat, nothing mystical.

I understand why OP has written the er, OP, and that people who are still over-eating think it is U.

Once you have cracked over eating, it is the easiest thing in the world. When you haven't it seems daunting and impossible.

I think it is very similar to smoking / non-smoking. Non-smokers just don't get it ("just give up") while smokers struggle with their addiction every day.

Self-control is the only way to maintain a healthy weight. It all boils down to that. Nothing more, nothing less - you need to be able to know how to control your impulses.

the original Atkins was def unlimited cheese

Small portions of 'normal' food works with a bit of exercise and little booze plus don't eat late