to think that losing weight isn't as complicated as it's made out to be?

[upsylazy]

NB I am not saying that losing weight is EASY as i have learned from personal experience. But there do seem to be this plethora of methods, books, videos, personal plans out there about it. Through my lifetime, I've had to listen to people drone on endlessly abouy the grapefruit diet, the F plan diet, the Cambridge diet, diets where you can't mix food groups right up to Atkins and all the low carb stuff.
My understanding from biology at school is that food contains units of energy (calories) and I seem to remember this being demonstrated by burning a peanut and seeing how much it raised the temperature of a test tube of water.
The understanding I have is that if you consume more calories than you burn off, you'll put on weight and vice versa. I've never found that idea particularly complex. I don't doubt that a lot of these diets work but they can only work if you burn up more calories than you consume.
Also, can someone please please tell me why carbs have suddenly become so bad for you? I can understand that saturated fat is bad as it clogs up your arteries and that too much salt is bad as it can raise blood pressure and reduce bone density but what do carbs DO to you that make them so terible?
I'm sitting in an office with that food pyramid thingy on the wall which basically says that carbs are good and that your diet should contain more of them than meat or dairy products. So are they wrong about this?
I don't have a problem with things like weight watchers as I can see that group suport can be invaluable. It's just all the new books and plans and programmes which various people (none of whom seem to be dieticians) are obviously making a packet from. I am perfectly prepared to stand corrected BTW.

that's clever. say brown rice, no commercial for that, but white rice you have several brands (uncle bens) & boil in the bag.

When I read it I was trying to think of a healthy TV commercial, I'm still thinking, I think tonight I will be a couch potato and check, any excuse not to do sit ups eh!

SCOTCHandWRY

A Swedish GP with a website and a book

V

A leading N. Italian diabetologist, oft published in highly respected jounals, who saved MILs one remaining foot (type 2 complications). And foistered upon me the cooking and serving of a balanced diet including complex carbs (but actively avoiding simple carbs) which was one of the key elements of a treatment plan that produced a long term (7 years post amputation) stability in the condition.

I think we both know which one I am going to plump for as a better source when it comes to complex carbs and blood sugar levels.

ICBINEG - too simplistic by far and you have therefore earnt yourself your own from me.
PCOS is not caused by an "obesity gene". There are multiple factors involved, including genetic predisposition - however there is not, IMO, one obesity gene that is at the root of most peoples' obesity, which apparently researchers have been looking for.
Go ahead and be insulted if you choose.

I feel extremely unwell quite quickly if I don't eat somd carbohydrate each day. I avoid refined carbs but anything like the Atkins diet would make me feel very very unwell. I have to stick to a balanced diet with carbs in there too.

I feel extremely unwell quite quickly if I don't eat some carbohydrate each day.

That is possibly down to your being more sensitive to an elevated ketone body level, which is associated with a high protein/low carb diet.

The milder symptoms of a raised, but not astronomical level, are typically bearable, they are the bad breath, constipation etc that people my age remember our mothers complaining about on the "mostly meat" crash diet of the 70s . However raised levels can cause some people to feel worse than that, cos they get symptoms like feeling weak, dizzy, drugged and generally not fantastic.

My son is extremely sensitive to a state of ketosis, as we discovered when he had a convulsion, turned blue and spent a week in hospital. Most people don't have that serious a reaction. Unfortunately most people won't know if they are/have become hyper sensitive until after their body proves they are. Which can be fatal.

A low carb diet shouldn't cause the bulk of people on it massive problems in terms ketone body levels, particularly in the short term. But I would recommend PingOAS to keep an eye on levels because how high your ketone body level will rise can be quite individual. By keeping watch on those levels you are less likely to assume any mild to moderate symptoms were caused by illicit/accidentally consumed carbs fucking up your blood sugar, when in fact they are being caused by a state of ketosis induced by your diet.

thumb so because there may be many different genetic factors that cause people great difficulty in controlling their weight you think it's okay to right most people off as simply making excuses?

Surely it's more likely to be simple low blood sugar?

Kytosis is associated with low carb consumtion. Achieving a state of kytosis was strongly encouraged by some low carb diets a few years ago, don't know if it still is.

There is no reason to assume symtoms are caused exclusively by blood sugar levels given that raised kytone body levels can be an issue with no/low carb consumption.

You are right in that the mechanics of losing weight are simple , just as they are with giving up smoking or drinking too much or taking drugs , you stop doing the thing that is harmful . Everyone can stop doing all of the above , for 5 minutes , an hour , a day etc . It is the staying stopped that is the difficult bit . It is the same with dieting , every single over weight person knows why they are over weight and how it happened . It is easy to start a diet or new way of eating , it is often harder to accept that it may well take months or years to get to a goal weight . So once the initial burst of enthusiasm is over , we start slipping back to our old ways .

Some low carb diets are ketogenic. Most aim to strike a balance where ketone production is low.

I have used ketosticks in the past and found it very difficult to get a reading despite me being on a very low carb intake. Other people may go into ketosis very quickly. It shows how different we all are and that no one approach will suit everyone.

I've maintained my weight loss over ten years with a controlled carb approach. I'm not in ketosis, eat jacket potatoes (and the odd chip) but avoid processed carbs as much as possible. There is very little nutrional benefit in a plate of pasta other than starch and a fairly small amount of fibre. It's just bulk. I look for foods that are high in nutrients so predominantly vegetable based. Suits me but I wouldn't dream of saying it was the solution for everyone

Some very good and thought-provoking posts here.

I think low-carb can encompass a spectrum of different eating habits, actually. Lots of these diets, like Atkins, have an initial phase based on eating mainly meat and green leaves. Some people maintain this phase for a long time.

It need not mean a very meat-heavy diet though. Sustainable low-carb diets are likely to mean a diet based on eating mainly vegetables (with starchy root veg eaten sparingly or not at all), with nuts, seeds and full fat dairy products, alongside meat, eggs and soya protein like tofu. If it is low-carb, not no-carb, there is room for some carbs from pulses and whole grains eaten in moderation.

It shows how different we all are and that no one approach will suit everyone

Exactly. I appreciate that some sites look very authoritative, but without doing any testing for what can be an issue with low carb diets, I don't think it is advisable for people to just assume any unhappy sensations they are experiencing must be down to blood sugar issues alone.

For many people who do slip into ketosis, symptoms are more irritating than harmful. However if somebody is in a state of ketosis and is feeling rough, but assumes that means blood sugar levels are the issue and it's carbs that cause blood sugar issues, so the few they are eating should be cut back even further, then that risks potentially compounding their discomfort rather than alleviating symptoms.

I suspect the majority not having a good time of it would lose patience with the diet on the basis that they feel like crap. But there is the potential for a few people getting locked into a vicious cycle if their chosen diet has stopped being a tool and turned into The One True Way. Not everybody arrives at the conclusion Suits me but I wouldn't dream of saying it was the solution for everyone. Some people get stuck in an almost evangelical state and emotionally that can be very hard to let go of.

Bloody food, it would all be so simple if it didn't mean more to us than "just fuel". (says the woman sulking cos she is berefit without the chocolate her body has out of the blue, inexlicably and most unreasonably decided to hate)

soya protein like tofu

I think you must have missed the emmergence of the "ebil soya!!" thingie. I haven't looked into it at all so have no idea if the fears are based on fact or fiction. Too much on my plate to tackle it at the mo

Food used to be very much more important to me but now it really is just fuel. It's taken a long time to get there but now I understand how my body works and how ill I feel if I eat the wrong things (coeliac with fruit fibre intolerance) I don't have the same relationship with food that I did

Moisturiser - my sister is like you, eats like you, and does very well on it too. I can't though. I really tried hard for years but that sort of diet destroys me. I honestly believe that there are fundamental differences between different people's metabolisms. And I feel bad that mine is a "selfish" metabolism - for ideological reasons I would prefer to eat veggie or even vegan (not because I care about animals but for environmental reasons). I can't. I don't like that, and it bothers me that my diet cannot reasonably be extrapolated to 7 billion people. It's a real problem

however, I hope that in the future I can somehow stabililse my metabolism and re-introduce pulses and complex carbohydrates and even perhaps make them more of a staple. However I am afraid that trying to do that might have been what messed me up in the first place; perhaps though with a greater emphasis on fats (vegetable fats as much as poss) it will be ok.

What I am working towards here though is not wearing nice pretty clothes and looking good in skinny jeans - just being functional. so I don't have a choice but to do this even if I have to eat more fishes and lambs along the way than I would like

I honestly believe that there are fundamental differences between different people's metabolisms

I agree. I have read in the past some theories that some people descend from the hunter gatherer type diet and some from the farmer. In general, most people will do reasonably well on a moderate protein, low fat, grain and starch based diet in line with current guidelines. Some won't do so well and some it won't suit at all.

People need to listen to what their bodies are saying to them. It doesn't matter what the latest guidelines say or what the latest fashionable diet recommends if it's in conflict with your own personal requirements. Listening to your body is the hard part

In general, most people will do reasonably well on a moderate protein, low fat, grain and starch based diet in line with current guidelines. Some won't do so well and some it won't suit at all.

Agreed.

And I feel bad that mine is a "selfish" metabolism

I don't any "value judgement" adjective has any place next to a noun like "metabolism". That looks like a recipie for a side dish of guilt with every dinner.

Oh, I have read about the evil soya, believe me. Yet another example of over-extrapolated hypotheses being fashioned into unproven absolutist messages. That kind of practice is a significant part of what has got people in the West into all this diet confusion and food issues in the first place.

I think that public information on diet that was required accurately to reflect and go no further than the research on which it was based would look very different from the messages we currently get, all of which is compounded by very bad reporting in the media.

EldritchCleavage

I think you are right. Some elements of the media, not just the bit determined to divide the entire world into that which causes and that which cures cancer, seem hell bent on telling the population conflicting, confusing things on the basis of waft of a hand towards a study they haven't read (nor would understand if they did) and don't intend to reference so people can go check it out for themselves, with the most sensational title possible.

I am happy to hear I don't have to have a wibble every time my sister puts a bit of soya milk in her tea.

curryeater, I don't think you need feel any guilt. You have to eat what keeps you healthy.

You might say that what you eat has nothing to do with guilt, and I would like to agree with you, and do in principle, but this thread has shown that there are huge judgey implications about what people eat and it would be crazy if I hadn't felt them. Especially if you are fat - then everyone (look! look at this thread!) has an opinion about why it is and what you should be doing about it. If you are fat and low carbing (I lost a lot of weight low carbing) then you basically have to eat in secret if you are at all sensitive to the hints and comments by people with old-fashioned low-fat ideas. People who think that special K is healthier than eggs, people who think that bread is healthier than full fat yoghurt. They say something and you know they are thinking, "and YOU should not be eating fat at all".