to think that losing weight isn't as complicated as it's made out to be?

[upsylazy]

NB I am not saying that losing weight is EASY as i have learned from personal experience. But there do seem to be this plethora of methods, books, videos, personal plans out there about it. Through my lifetime, I've had to listen to people drone on endlessly abouy the grapefruit diet, the F plan diet, the Cambridge diet, diets where you can't mix food groups right up to Atkins and all the low carb stuff.
My understanding from biology at school is that food contains units of energy (calories) and I seem to remember this being demonstrated by burning a peanut and seeing how much it raised the temperature of a test tube of water.
The understanding I have is that if you consume more calories than you burn off, you'll put on weight and vice versa. I've never found that idea particularly complex. I don't doubt that a lot of these diets work but they can only work if you burn up more calories than you consume.
Also, can someone please please tell me why carbs have suddenly become so bad for you? I can understand that saturated fat is bad as it clogs up your arteries and that too much salt is bad as it can raise blood pressure and reduce bone density but what do carbs DO to you that make them so terible?
I'm sitting in an office with that food pyramid thingy on the wall which basically says that carbs are good and that your diet should contain more of them than meat or dairy products. So are they wrong about this?
I don't have a problem with things like weight watchers as I can see that group suport can be invaluable. It's just all the new books and plans and programmes which various people (none of whom seem to be dieticians) are obviously making a packet from. I am perfectly prepared to stand corrected BTW.

To be honest, I'm not all that bothered by reducing the amount of carbs I have. Very nutty Muesli is my absolute favourite breakfast at the moment. I don't miss toast or bread and I'm still eating a small amount as spag bol just isn't the same without a bit of spaghetti!

I would be terribly upset if I had to give up cheese though.

Don't be fooled....Museli is very calorific as are nuts. I love muesli but as I would have a massive bowl I don't bother. The 30g suggested serving is pathetic and I would rather go without, lol.

I sometimes have cheese on my salad....grate it and then it looks like you are getting more :)

YA sort of NBU.

The physiology (underlying conditions/medication aside) of losing weight is very simple. Eating a healthy diet, exercising portion control, and taking regular exercise, will always work, with no need for all the angst about faddy diets, carbs v protein, etc.

However, putting yourself in a situation psychologically and practically where you can put this into practice, is much, much harder.

Most over-eating is psychologically rooted (hence why most people who lose weight go on to put it back on), and many people's lifestyles make it very difficult to adopt healthy living regimes, such as finding child-free time to exercise regularly, or affording good-quality ingredients that can be turned into tasty food in the limited time available.

I did weigh my muesli this morning and looked at the 45g portion recommended before topping it up to 75g. Hah!

Maybe I should look into porridge again. it's just a nightmare to make with a hungry toddler running around demanding rice crispies.

I love rice crispies.....they are low in cals and fat and you can have a massive bowl! :)

Very good diet threads on mumsnet if you want to swap diet tips and find support - all styles of diet represented!
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/big_slim_whatever_weight_loss_club

absolutely right dahlen, it is the mind part rather than the body that trips people up time and again. I also find it depressing that the existence of food addiction/compulsive eating is so often dismissed out of hand as an excuse for 'greed'.

yabu - it is more complex than eat less, burn more.

some thing you eat are really easy for your body to use - like sugar, and carbs which are essentially more complex sugars. some thing are tough to break down, and as a result are more satisfying. so even if you eat more calories of meat and protein, you wont need to eat again so soon and wont get into the spiking and troughing blood sugar trap that sugar and carbs result in and have to eat more (and exercise more in order to lose!) to compensate.

nature made sugar and carbs inaccesible for humans - honey, short fruit seasons and tiny wild veg would be all we got. we thought we'd be clever and start breeding bigger and better carb sources, preserving year round, and processing them to be more palatable/safe to eat....hence obesity.

SCOTCHandWRY

Your link sounds so impressive. The Science of Health index. So offical.

And yet if you follow through the links as to who is behind it, you get a man flogging stuff.

www.brianpeskin.com/

It is possibly MLM, since the orginal site seems to be from somebody who bases hismwork on Brian Peskin's ideas.

I think with everything the first question to ask is cui bono?

And in this case I think there is every reason to assume it is Peskins and his ilk rather than the people visiting the site.

I don't believe "it's as simple as....". I am a skinny minny, right until the first time I gave up smoking and I EXPLODED.

The urge to eat was far stronger than my will power to stop before I no longer recognised myself.

It was very hard, gave me a new humility, becuase before that miserable episode I did think that all people had to do was "just" eat less.

Right, in the same way you "just" stop smoking. Actually worse than smoking. Nioctine replacement is actually a big help. Couldn't find any bloody food replacement. Well, not anythingn that I was prepared to eat without sticking a pile of Hargen Daz on top. Which would be like nicotine replacement plus fags, ie not good at all.

Horrible time, thank god it's over.

But at the same time there is a lot of stuff flying around this thread being offered as fact with few sources being revealed.

My main concern is that as it is already very hard going people are left vulnerable to cranks and snakeoil sellers (be they products, programmes or books)

It would help to sort the information from the psudoscience if perhaps people would say where or who they are getting what they believe to be the facts from.

sorry, ironically i follow a low carb diet and ate a chocolate bar earlier which has totally messed up my blood sugar and i'm experiencing a major blood sugar drop ;S hencde poor typing a little sense - proof if ever it were needed haha!

Worra - when did "you need help" become such a sneery thing to say? I know - when it became a cliche used by nasty judgy people, NEVER followed by, "Here - have some. From me."

Yes of course help is needed! This is my whole point! People need help to manage food and eating, some different kinds of help from others. This is a crazy capitalist world in which there is so much profit to be made from dysfunctional eating that it is bloody hard to eat sensibly (whatever sensibly may be for you - for many, not low fat).

You are not offering help, you are sneering. It's mean. And "you need help" is a really nasty thing to say as an insult. And I do, and so do lots of people.

I lost 2 and a bit stone more than a year ago and kept it off. I used the MyFitnessPal.com app and it was very simple- don't go over the daily calorie limit.

I kept to the limit by having smaller portions, swapping fat foods for low fat foods and almost entirely eliminating bread from my diet.

My fitness pal works like a food diary, so it also made me aware of all the unconscious eating I was doing and I stopped it.

I've recommended it to a couple of people and they've all lost weight too. It was simple and free to use. And it followed the principles of 'less in more out'.

Curry - in all fairness I think I would be scared to offer you help. You obviously have had bad experiences which have embittered you but I honestly think of some well meaning person offered you help, you would think they were patronising you and throw it back to them.

I had nasty comments made to me in the past, really hurtful ones but it just gave me a kick up the arse and made me want to show them!

I honestly don't think anyone is sneering at you or being mean.

I think heyannie sums it up with "It's simple but it's not easy".

I used to be obese and convinced myself it was because I had a slow metabolism, I was big-boned, I was naturally curvy, it was genetic, it was hormone-related, I needed sugar to keep me going, I deserved fattening treats, etc etc. (None of these were medically-backed, BTW - obviously it's different if you have an actual diagnosis!)

When I (eventually) decided to stick to a low-calorie diet and do more exercise, it was actually remarkably easy and the pounds and stones dropped off. I don't feel hungry, I don't feel like I am depriving myself, I understand that a Wispa Gold is the equivalent of 30 lengths of the local pool and isn't something you eat two of to cheer yourself up for five minutes on a Tuesday afternoon.

But it's so hard to believe that when you're stuck in a cycle of overeating and inactivity, it's easy to feel that it is an insurmountable challenge and there's no point. THIS is the hard part. It's not figuring out that fewer calories + more exercise = less weight.

I actually don't think people realise how horrible people are to larger people and how isolating it can become. One of my friends is such a lovely woman and she has ALWAYS been a lovely woman. She got really quite large over a several year period and then she had to have counselling (and I think surgery) and she exercised more and lost loads and she felt great. I remember speaking to her husband and him saying how the nicest thing for her was that people didn't shout stuff at her in the street anymore or make nasty comments. i was honestly shocked. She was always just her to me, a really lovely woman, and I couldn't believe people could be so cruel about something she obviously wasn't doing on purposeand I really, really can't believe people just think larger people are not making enough effort and are lazy The largest family I know of all have moderate learning disabilities and I suspect prader willi sydrome. Is it their fault too?

it's self perpetuating to emotionally eat because of whatever reason and then become to self loathe and then in turn emotional eat. It's a very viscous circle and to excuse a pun, it feeds itself :(

SCOTCH, I see the "right" pyramid recommends no more than 2 portions of fruit and veg a day. How does that tie in with the whole 5 a day thing? From what I understand, the info about 5 a day came from cancer research and it's fairly uncontentious that increasing fruit and veg intake reduces the rate of certain types of cancer.

Actually, Upsy, I had heard that the 5 portions of fruit and veg was invented by the Californian fruit and veg growers association.

I shall do some googling!

All of these guidelines are for an average person and take no account of individual needs

You will no doubt be amazed to hear that I never have 5 portions a day of fruit/veg. I am restricted to two portions of veg and no fruit at all. That is what my consultant advises and it is what I do best on.

I haven't eaten fruit for 5 years and I've never been fitter

Daily Mail Link on 5 a day (so not exactly referenced scientific studies, I concede, but I am supposed to be working).

specialsubject - yes, you are that stupid if you cannot see that just because something works for you it doesn't mean it will work for others. I would have thought someone who had a science degree would have at least understood that much

It's not referenced science by any stretch, it's a person selling a book

The Obesity Epidemic by Zoe Harcombe (Columbus, £20) is out now

notsofrownieface I am really, really pleased for you that think this will sort your problem out and I hope it does. It is a bit rich to say 'it's the answer' when you haven't actually done it yet though and at best nieve to think that just because it may work for you that it will work for everyone. I do hope it works for you though, because trust me, the alternative is pretty fucking miserable.

I wasn't offering curry help...just to be clear.

I was pointing out that her issues are so immense it would seem she thinks they give her the right to insult people she doesn't agree with and accuse them of spouting crap/being judgemental.

I can't see where I've spouted crap and apart from calling the people on FB/MN who started threads stating they'd eaten a shocking amount of food because it's Christmas greedy, I can't see where I've judged anyone either?

I'm not sure if she's reading my posts wrong, or if her own issues mean she's misreading them.

Either way curry I'm sorry you're upset, but I don't think reading threads like this and hurling insults about is necessary.

Loquase - I linked that particular graphic as it had both the current recommended diet and the paleo/primal pyramid in one graphic - plenty of free paleo/primal info out there, not selling stuff, so perhaps a poor choice on my part.

SCOTCH, I see the "right" pyramid recommends no more than 2 portions of fruit and veg a day. How does that tie in with the whole 5 a day thing? From what I understand, the info about 5 a day came from cancer research and it's fairly uncontentious that increasing fruit and veg intake reduces the rate of certain types of cancer.

Upsilazy,
The 5 a day in relation to cancer is not a very strong link, interesting program on R4 a few days ago about exactly that - summary was, no link, the link was to fibre and actually it's veg you should be eating, but that the "experts" were reluctant to say outright that actually fruit isn't that great after all in huge quantities (because it's easier to get people to eat fruit especially as smoothies count, even though you might as well just eat sugar off a spoon in terms of what it does to your blood sugar), but that was what they said in a round about way. The opinion was, well, eating some fruit and no veg is better than not eating any fruit OR veg so lets not complicate the message.

5 a day is a marketing campaign. That's why it's a different number in different countries.