to think that losing weight isn't as complicated as it's made out to be?

[upsylazy]

NB I am not saying that losing weight is EASY as i have learned from personal experience. But there do seem to be this plethora of methods, books, videos, personal plans out there about it. Through my lifetime, I've had to listen to people drone on endlessly abouy the grapefruit diet, the F plan diet, the Cambridge diet, diets where you can't mix food groups right up to Atkins and all the low carb stuff.
My understanding from biology at school is that food contains units of energy (calories) and I seem to remember this being demonstrated by burning a peanut and seeing how much it raised the temperature of a test tube of water.
The understanding I have is that if you consume more calories than you burn off, you'll put on weight and vice versa. I've never found that idea particularly complex. I don't doubt that a lot of these diets work but they can only work if you burn up more calories than you consume.
Also, can someone please please tell me why carbs have suddenly become so bad for you? I can understand that saturated fat is bad as it clogs up your arteries and that too much salt is bad as it can raise blood pressure and reduce bone density but what do carbs DO to you that make them so terible?
I'm sitting in an office with that food pyramid thingy on the wall which basically says that carbs are good and that your diet should contain more of them than meat or dairy products. So are they wrong about this?
I don't have a problem with things like weight watchers as I can see that group suport can be invaluable. It's just all the new books and plans and programmes which various people (none of whom seem to be dieticians) are obviously making a packet from. I am perfectly prepared to stand corrected BTW.

yes but most of those boasting will have been thin

No, a lot of them weren't...and some of them can be seen now stressing about starting diets again.

Anyway, you seem to be taking this a little bit personally and that certainly wasn't my intention.

I stand by the fact that not everyone who is overweight is addicted to food. Many of them are greedy (some will admit this) and that honesty is probably the best place to start from if they're to make successful changes for the future.

But you shouldn't be starving on any diet....it's all about finding the right sort of food...slow releasing carbs etc to fill you up for longer. If you are on diet and starving hungry (but genuinly hungry, not just wanting to eat because it is habit) then you need to re-adjust the diet so you don't feel so hungry all the time.

Don't have a biscuit at 3.30 because you are getting starvation messages...have an apple/banana and a glass of water instead. Oh yes, it is boring and nowhere near as nice as a biscuit but that is what you need to do if you want results.

I was very overweight as a teenager/in y young 20's because I ate shit....pure and simple....I loved mcdonalds, hated exercise and enjoyed a drink.

If a person is overweight just due to food issues (not medical stuff) then they need to find a reason for their overeating, and try and tackle it. It's so easy to just keep making excuses about it but if you want it bad enough then you will do it. I did, it just took until I was ready to make that change...for me!

Dobby, my husband is like you. I, sadly, am not. He has a definite off switch even with food he loves, finds it very hard to gain weight and loses weight extremely easily. My mother and sister are like him too. My father and younger isister are like me.

That's no excuse for me to be overweight, I accept I just have to work harder at being healthy in weight and habits than my husband does. But I completely understand how, for people with no money, a poor food culture and other issues, staying slim is very hard indeed.

I just wanted to clarify that I meant that the method of losing weight is fairly straight forward (ie eat less calories than you burn off). I know that the psychology around food both for individuals and for society is enormously complex. I hope I made it clear that i don't think that losing weight is easy.
Looking at in in reverse, I used to work in eating disorders but simply telling patients that they had to eat more was hardly going to be helpful as it was the psychological issues that were preventing them from being able to do this. However, practically, what they needed to do to gain weight was to eat more.
Thanks for those of you who've given me info/research findings. Maybe it isn't quite as simple as I thought (although I stand by my claim that it's not as complicated as some make out).

It is simple in that you eat less/exercise more you lose weight.

I calorie count. I lost nearly 5 stone doing that. I also have mainly healthy food. I eat a lot of fruit and veg and very little sat fat. I do eat carbs, not an excessive amount of a ridiculously small amount. Some days I have carbs with lunch and tea, other days just tea. I try to mix it up a bit.

betty "Similarly, the "fat gene" issue - I'm not convinced by this"

Having pcos is very similar to having a "fat gene"....

IC - wasn't me who mentioned the fat gene.

However, now you mention it...I watched a documentary a few months ago where there was this family who were all large and said that genetically they were fat. They had tests to see whether they actually did have the fat gene and guess what..........they didn't. They admitted then that actually, they ate shit and had a lazy lifestyle.

I agree though regarding pcos - just makes it ten times harder which must be very very frustrating.

betty bananas contain as many calories as biscuits. The slow release makes no difference because it will be 3 hours till next meal by which time I will be hungry again no matter which I eat.

betty I know - you asked who had said that James was greedy and I have pointed out the comment made by Thumb (one of many possible posters) that indicated the answer.

But a banana will fill you up for longer............obviously if you have a certain amount of calories you know a banana is better than a biscuit!

Freeze some grapes, and suck on one of them when you get a craving for something nice to eat.

hmm I bet they didn't do a follow up on someone with pcos though did they? Coz its fine to bash the fat as greedy....and as this thread shows, less fine to accept that you might well be right there with them if you had their genetic make up.

Not necessarily, Betty. The sugars in bananas lead to disaster for me - it leads to a really nasty crash soon after (esp. because they are low fat)

Worra and the rest of you: what does it matter? Why would it make you feel so good if it was clear (which it isn't) that most fat people are greedy? Why is this so important to argue? What's your stake in this?

I don't get a craving for something nice. My body demands calories. If I eat something slow to consume then it simply takes longer to eat enough.

You can't necessarily fool your calorie counter. And if it is set to the wrong total then you have two simple choices. Hit the counter target and be obese in a matter of years. Or defy the counter and feel hungry all day.

As I said...I have been there....it's no fun being overweight and I have to work really really hard not to be. I would far rather eat biscuits and chocolates than salad and fruit but I prefer looking slimmer to eating so I prioritise. If I take my finger off the button so to speak for even a little while I would pile on the weight.......

No-one is bashing the fat as greedy on this thread as far as I have seen.

Curry - when I used to go to SW the leader used to say fruit if it suits

Every one is different, what works for one won't necessarily work for another.

In a recent attempt at betty's strategy I tried eating carrot sticks until I felt full.

I felt full all right but I never stopped feeling hungry. I think the two things are separate.

I actually don't like feeling full but I also don't like feeling hungry!

So betty do you personally feel you are being greedy when you stop the counting and eat when you are hungry?

But were you hungry or was your brain just telling you that carrot sticks arent a nice as say chocolate or biscuits and was protesting a bit?

Sadly, dieting is shit as all the yummy food isn't great for us but I am a big believer in anything in moderation.

It's not bad to feel a bit hungry I don;t think but you shouldn't feel starving. Apparently it takes our brain ten minutes or so to realise we are full which is why they say eat dinner sitting at the table and chew slowly (not that I do :) )

Yes IC - when I am off the healthy regime so to speak I can be very greedy! With me it seems to be all or nothing although I am slowly learning how to conquer that!

It isn't all that difficult to lose weight.

It is difficult to keep it off.

See Stephen Fry, Dara O Briain, Natalie Cassidy, Oprah Winfrey, The woman from Steps, Dawn French etc.

Who would have thought they would lose and regain all that weight with the spotlight of the media on them? Even harder for us anonymous individuals to keep it off.

ICBINEG, I completely understand. I have been there, so so so been there, and the stupid thing is that the more I would try to reduce calories through "healthy"(low fat) eating, the more I felt driven to eat ALL THE TIME (physically, not psychologically driven).

I believe that the "healthy eating" messages of today are wrong on many levels and one of them is that (being tied up with neo liberal capitalism) they still promote consumption. "Replace that biscuit with an apple!" "Eat this low fat cereal bar!" - or, maybe wait till dinner? Only possible if you ate enough, and enough fat, at lunch.
I have found that on a healthy (high fat) low-carb diet you don't need to snack - but this is very bad for capitalism. People who eat only three times a day and will be fine till they get home and have whatever is planned for dinner are not nearly as profitable as people who are melting with hunger on a tube platform near a kiosk.

It bugs the hell out of me that there is a section in the supermarket labelled "healthier spreads" when I used to eat butter as a child and teenager and was very healthy, switched to crap like that at college and lost my shit and have battled constantly ever since.

I wanted to diet when I was 17 and my mum would only accept certain diety behaviour - so I still had to eat whatever was for dinner. Maybe a small amount, maybe no pud, maybe lots of green veg, but I was not allowed to be faddy about the main meal of the day. I swam loads, cut out crap, ate my homemade dinner every night (under duress) and was bloody gorgeous and slim. I imagined I could be skinny when I got away from home and didn't have to eat that dinner every night. At college, I fucked myself up so badly. I think the fat that I despised that was in mum's meals (just ordinary things like stew, quiche etc) saved me and kept me healthy and as soon as the LOW FAT JUGGERNAUT was unleashed on me I was fucked.

People's lives are destroyed by this. Seriously. Stop being so fucking self righteous, everyone who doesn't get it!

There are people who will be thin pretty much regardless, and this concept is pretty accepted. The opposite is likely true as well - it's been repeatedly shown that people experience the sensation of hunger differently, that many people who are fat also do not have the same dip in hormones that give fullness that the thin regardless people do and as such get less relief from hunger.

And anything can be addictive - gambling can be addictive (which is why all gambling ads have to have the warnings and logo on it), the Internet can be addictive, foods can be addictive. Some people are more prone to addiction than others, there is a lot of evidence about the genetic components to the likelihood of addictions - even when some in a family do not have typical ones there are usually other obsessive things that are 'normal' instead - like work.

Curry - who is being self righteous?? I hope you aren't talking to me

x-posted - totally get the "full but hungry" feeling. Carrot sticks, apples, no-fat cottage cheese.... god is miserable, so fucking depressing.

Anyone who identifies with any of this should read the John Briffa book!

So when you are off piste you eat past the point you stop feeling hungry?

See I do think that is greedy. I just don't think it is a prerequisite for being fat.

I am pretty experienced at telling the difference between hunger and desire to eat chocolate/things of that ilk. HG helped with that in that I never lost my desire to eat chocolate even when I had no apetite at all and would not even consider eating anything solid that would hurt coming back up.