For not seeing a true reason to get married

[anykey]

Before I start! Long time reader, first time poster!

In my eyes, marriage is just a bit of paper. If you love someone enough why should getting married actually matter? Does it suggest I love that person more if we are married? Or simply harder to get away if times are hard? Is it a promise that we will stay together through thick and thin or is it a promise that if I stop loving you I will try harder to make it work because we are married? I feel I am from a younger generation which has seen people marry just for financial security, or for religion. (Pre-arranged etc) or maybe because that's "what you do" grow up, get married, have kids and live happily ever after.
I love my partner an have been together for a good few years now but i feel this could put pressure on the relationship in the future!

I've been reading these forums for a while now and have seen that other people's POV can help out. Am I alone with my views or are there others out there who feel the same?

last time i looked getting married was cheaper than getting a decent co-habitation agreement drawn up by a solicitor
so we did the former

We did ours with wills

kate middleton did hers with wills

At the moment, I don't think people generally know just how vulnerable you are if you're not married.

I think it goes both ways - ask any married couple you know how much research they did before getting married, and whether they made sure it was to their advantage before agreeing to it. (I asked around before we got married and mostly I got baffled looks in response. Most people said they just "wanted to be married" and went ahead and did it. Virtually none spoke to a solicitor or financial advisor to see if it made any sense in their situation.)

People generally assume marriage is automatically beneficial, but, again, it comes down to individual circumstances and there are responsibilities as well as advantages attached to it. Joint responsibility for debt, ability to take out a mortgage etc. etc. And yes, for every woman who's left penniless after the bloke walks out, there are also people (men AND women) who lose a huge chunk of their assets to divorce as well, so, again, marriage is not a blanket solution to everybody's every problem. It suits some people in certain situations but not others. Do your homework.

I feel similar and I'm 43. I kind of would like to be married, because I am happy with the idea of publicly committing to DP, but I also have a problem with it because of my parents' terrible marriage, and I'm worried it could somehow spoil what we have now after 15 years together. We do have a will that makes sure everything passes to each other etc. but I still think marriage would give us more in law, e.g. I'd get DP's pension (though I'm not sure).

I suspect the main reason it might happen eventually is if our DC want it to. My older DS isn't fussed but I can just imagine bossy toddler DD wanting us to when she's older!

"What do you consider a contribution to a marriage to be"

For the time being, let's say it means whatever you think it should.

That works for me. Skip the argument and go straight to where I'm right. Good boy.

I friend of mine desperately wanted to marry her partner but he didn't want to citing 'it's only a piece of paper' as the reason. She said well if it's only a piece of paper what's the big deal? He couldn't really argue with that reasoning and shegot her wish. They are still happily married

I think YABU, for the following reasons:

First - love isn't enough. You also need to have similar values and life expectations, especially if you want children. Getting married (should) make you discuss the future, what you want, and actually take an action to commit to going forth together as a partnership. I think there are men, and probably some women, who are very happy to coast along in relationships, and say the right thing to keep things sweet, but have do not have the investment in the relationship the other person has. You certainly see this on Mumsnet.

I do think saying the actual commitment out loud and making those promises in front of an audience (however small) is important. There are no implied or assumed promises. You have stated them to each other.

I do think being married does make it harder to leave. Your families and friends know you have committed to be together, and they probably witnessed the ceremony in which you did it, so there is social pressure. Divorce can also be expensive and lengthy. I think leaving your husband/wife is much more difficult then leaving your boyfriend/girlfriend. Hopefully this means people try harder to make their relationship work, which is especially important if you have children to keep a stable home for.

And finally, there are the legal and financial benefits, which vary depending on your situation. I don't know why anyone would put themselves or their children at a disadvantage to avoid getting married.

OP I am 28, so I don't know if I'm a similar age to you, but I do strongly believe in marriage as you can tell. I do think that, because divorce is so common now, that people enter marriage too easily. I wish it were a legal requirement that couples had to go to pre-marital counselling before being allowed marry. I think that, when done with thought, marriage is wonderful thing that helps make a family stronger.

Women need to take responsibility for themselves imo.

I agree with this in general but so many women seem to get into a situation where they have kids with someone, don't marry, don't work and are absolutely screwed when the man ups and leaves. I just can't believe people would put themselves into such a vulnerable position.

I also agree with Panicking that marriage suits some situations and not others and people should definitely do their homework. As many people walk blindly into marriage as leave themselves vulnerable through not being married imo.

Hopefully this means people try harder to make their relationship work, which is especially important if you have children to keep a stable home for.

See, I don't think it does though in practice. If anything, it drags out bad situations, with people thinking they have to make it work just because they're married, when in fact, it's dead in the water. Affairs are affairs are affairs in my opinion, whether people are married or not.

Also, one of the things that puts people off marriage is the whole business of having to do it publicly. You don't. We didn't do it in front of anyone or make vows or promises. We just signed a book. I think again, it boils down to knowing what you're getting into and discussing whether it's right for you. But on the other hand, lots of unmarried couples share the same values and know they want the same things so for everyone, marriage is not a prerequisite.

Marriage does not protect you from anything emotionally scarring. Women walking blindly into a situation where they have no money or rights seems unbelievable to me. All the stuff about saying it in public is romantic notion not many people suddenly recall their vows as they shag someone else! We talk about hw we feel ad what we expect from our relationship on an ongoing basis and after 21 years it is as good as ever. My bf got divorced last year and her ex was so cruel about her.

DH and I got married for a number of reasons. We both felt it was an important foundation we wanted (not judging others) before having kids. Kids are a bigger commitment than marriage and I personally feel that if I didn't feel I could commit to marrying someone I wouldn't choose to have kids with them.

Getting married means you are legally related and does change the rights and protections you have. We also both felt it was an important commitment we wanted to make. And we enjoyed doing that with our friends and family there - I am not going to make excuses for that.

Paggy's a troll? A filthy troll?

That's new.

For me, marriage works on a number of level. There is the purely legal aspect of it - it is a legal agreement, and the state (and for us, my ketubah) sets out our rights and obligations. It makes you legally recognised as family, and provides protection of assets, some guidance on what needs to happen if the relationship breaks down, who looks after children etc. etc.

Then there's a personal level. DH and I were together for a number of years before we got married, and were pretty devoted from the get go. I married him because I want to spend the rest of my life with him, and love him very deeply. I didn't really think that getting married would change that, but strangely, since we got married I feel more solid, that our relationship has wider recognition (I've now met most of his family, he's met most of mine, we're legally and emotionally bound together) and is just more, I don't know, solid. It's more difficult to break up, so we need to make more of an effort. But that's not something everyone who's married or not married will necessarily agree with or feel.

And this too "I was surprised by how differently I felt when I got married. Pre-marriage, if DH and I had a row, there was a little bit of me that secretly thought 'Sod this, I'm off' - not that I ever acted on that. Post-marriage, I was very conscious that I had contracted in front of all my family and friends to try to make this work forever"

Hell yeah. Man, those arguments in the first few weeks were a bit intense. And freaked me out a lot

I'm not sure society sees me any differently for not being married. Everyone refers to my DP as my DH anyway. My colleagues have never asked if I'm married.

The difference is I know. I feel I am not meant to be married. My family are not made for marriage and are not very good at it. I don't think I would feel me if I was married.

I accept the points about the legal situation and will look into that. The next of kin issue doesn't concern me so much. I am next of kin for at least one of my parents and I don't see why next of kin necessarily has to be your spouse.
Not everyone has their DH/DP in the birthing room (though I did) so it might be some people would prefer having their mothers or fathers making decisions about them if they were ill.

If you jointly own a house and aren't married, you need to look at its value, and the tax situation on death. Even if you have wills that leave the property to the other on 1st death, the need to pay inheritance tax could mean you have to sell the property/ raise a lump sum to pay the tax bill - I think this doesn't apply if you are married, where the tax would arise on the 2nd death. I know the inheritance tax threshold is fairly high - £325,000 - but lots of people living in the South-East have quite valuable properties these days, even if they aren't 'rich' because of the ridiculous way house prices have risen. Lump sum payouts from life insurance etc may also be taxable if they go to a partner but not if they go to a spouse.

You need to check the situation regarding any financial assets and death/ tax very carefully, otherwise you may, responsibly, make wills as partners, one partner dies, and a large chunk of the assets left to support the survivor and DCs goes to the taxman instead.

Whilst alive - you can freely exchange money/ assets as a married couple without there being any tax implications, which can make planning your savings/ retirement/ pensions/ reducing tax bills easier. Being married can give you more rights to the other's pensions etc- e.g. you may have greater financial security.

Pag is a troll? I have clearly missed something

I think society in general would be quite surprised if I married now,at 24,I know I was surprised at a number of people from my school year who have married in the last 3 years. Not least because one was an utter wanker 6 years ago. He must have matured a lot in the two years between 18 and 20.

I see marriage as being a romantic proclamation of each others commitment to each and the deeply unromantic (but possibly more important) legal contract that it is. I have the capacity (if I ever get another job ever) to earn more than my DP. Certainly I will be working a lot longer than he will! It provides both parties work legal protections they don't otherwise have. Who knows,in 20 years time I could be paying some kind of support for my DP. A Martin order even. I'd still get married.

I think marriage is only really important if you want children or there is a big discrepancy between your incomes and you decide to live together. I don't see it as a lifelong contract (but then we're on our second marriages). We will stay together for as long as we choose to stay together. However all our assets earned and bought and saved over the time we have been married will be viewed as joint if we divorce (in Scottish law) and if one of us suddenly dies the other is catered for. It's the sharing everything whilst you are married that is important (and husband is a much more convenient tag for him than lover/ bidy-in, partner, special friend, boyfriend etc, ) it sounds more grown up and committed.
If you think getting married may put pressure on the relationship then make sure you don't get pregnant.

roseum yes you are quite right about the inheritance tax issue. If you are an unmarried couple who jointly own a house worth more than £650k then all the wills and powers of attorney in the world won't give you the tax protection that marriage does. You can leave 100% of your assets tax free to your spouse/ civil partner. To anyone else it's only £325k. I'm sure there are plenty of MNetters out there with assets in that range, particularly if ones who have invested in properties.
And on the subject of pensions, my DH works in the public sector and should (hopefully) get a decent pension and has a generous death in service benefit scheme but both are only payable to spouses/CPs.

Ignoring the fact that this article is from the Daily Mail it gives an interesting take on why "well known feminist" Jenni Murray decided to get married.

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-229884/Jenni-Murray-thinks-marriage-humiliates-women-So-23-years-radios-outspoken-feminist-finally-wed-father-sons.html

Oh gawd. I'm one of those who has buried her head in the sand on this issue for years and years, and I probably deserve to be flamed for it (pleeeease be gentle!) I'm currently a SAHM and we have 3 DCs - yes, I know, I know .

I've watched friends and family getting married around me for the past couple of decades and always maintained that although I loved attending their big days, marriage simply wasn't for me, I've just always felt it was for other people, and hate the idea of being a wife or having a husband.

We have never had wills drawn up , have planned to a few times but things always got in the way. However, the house is in both of our names, the value is not anywhere near the inheritance tax threshold, if DP dies his work will give me a lump sum which will pay off the mortgage, and I know there are no family issues which would prevent me being allowed into hospital if he were critically ill, for example.

I also read somewhere that even as a mere co-habitee, I would have a very good legal claim to part of DP's pension if we were ever to split up.

Now, however, I'm wondering if it's easier just to bloody well get married. I don't have the time or energy to investigate the minutiae of clauses that would need to be included in a will to replicate the T&Cs of marriage - and is it even possible, in fact, to replicate it exactly, in legal terms,, does anyone know? Does anyone here have a will which gives them exactly the same rights and responsibilities as if they were married? I'd be really interested to hear if you do - did you just go to a solicitor and tell them that's what you wanted??

The bottom line is that I'd feel so ... silly going ahead and getting married now, at 40yo, when I've been swearing blue to all and sundry for the past 25 years that I never would (and truly believing it). If we went and did it, it would be totally on the quiet with a couple of witnesses pulled off the street, probably, but I'd feel so embarrassed having to tell people afterwards that I'd changed my mind about the whole kit and caboodle. I think they'd just look down on me and think I was stupid and flighty.

Well, I know I deserve a bit of a flaming but I'm glad to have got this off my chest. Though I still don't know what to do

surely you don't even need to tell people? i can't see whose business it would be.
no need to change names, no need to wear a ring, no need to stop calling your DP "DP" as opposed to "husband" - you just get a handy piece of paper to wave at bureaucrats.

Well, I wouldn't make a big announcement, Charlotte, but I still couldn't lie if one of my friends asked me (as they still do intermittently) "Are you still grimly holding out against ever getting married, then, Subs?" Sigh.

I think if something happened you would ponder whether avoiding feeling a bit of a nit was worth not getting your position secured.
I am not sure about his pension but I would not be trusting 'i read somewhere'.

I am sure you are busy. But if he left or something happened I think it is a bit late to wish you had taken a couple of hours.

I know that sounds harsh but really. A sahm with 3 dc should know what her position is. I sorted this out before I agreed to stop working.

Dh is fab and I trust him completely. But life throws unexpected shit. I would recommend you sort your position out. I would rather appear flighty and stupid than actually be it.