To be unsympathetic with pregnant friend

[creamteas]

Two people I know were in an on-off relationship which neither took very seriously. Last year, due to contraception failure, she became pregnant. From the beginning, he made it clear he was not interested in being a father and offered her money and support through an abortion. She decided she wanted the baby, and at which point he stated that he wanted nothing to do which the future child and ended all contact with her. This was at about 6 weeks in and she is now 36 weeks pregnant.

Throughout the pregnancy she has sent him constant updates and invitations to scans etc all of which have gone unanswered. She was still assuming he would change his mind, when this week she heard the news that he is moving abroad just after New Year.

She is now apparently devastated and wondering how she will cope. Yet it was her decision to continue with the pregnancy and she did so knowing that he had no intention of being involved.

I am trying to be sympathetic but given that he made his feelings very clear from the beginning, I really don?t think she has anything to complain about. She made the decision to continue with the pregnancy knowing that he was not going to be involved. AIBU.

Festive, they both made the baby, the baby exists here and now, they both must take responsibilty.

Perhaps there should be some kind of legal document that men can apply for in the event that they create a baby despite using contraception.

They could apply to the court and legally state that they do not wish to have a child, and then if at that point the woman wants to continue with the pregnancy, then she is legally obliged to accept full financial responsibility.

'Any man who can show so little interest in their offspring, can go fuck off right away. I wouldn't want any of his money either'

Personally I agree with you, but it's not about what the adults think. It's about a child that is entitled to financial support from its father. And who may well seek out that father.

Or they could accept that vaginal intercourse carries the risk of pregnancy.

Festive I do see where you are coming from. But every adult participating in consensual sex knows pregnancy is a possible outcome. Regardless of precautions taken.

He doesn't have to be an active Dad,nobody is saying that. But he surely must take responsibility for his own actions?

Many women find themselves pregnant and for them an abortion is the right choice, for whatever personal reason. For many it is not. Both times the man has a part to play.

This friend the OP writes about seems damned of she does,damned if she doesn't. Ignoring the odd maths,she is very late in pregnancy and likely to be having a bit of a last minute panic. She probably has ^always* known she would be doing it alone,but this late on is a bit upset about what could have been. About what would be her ideal.

I can fully imagine being in OP's shoes with a friend. It's the way she has written her OP that makes me think she isn't a good friend. In her shoes I would be talking about worrying for my friend,not that she should make her bed and lay in it.

The baby only exists here and now because of a choice the woman made.

It is very easy for women in the UK to have an abortion if they want to, right up until 24 weeks. The law gives women plenty of time to decide consider their options. (Personally, I disagree with that, but that's the way it is right now so that is what I base my opinion on)

As a woman has more rights and options than a man, it is only right that she has more responsibility than a man.

Or they could accept that vaginal intercourse carries the risk of pregnancy.

Then a woman should do the same and abortion should be illegal after consensual sex.

Legally women have more rights.

Emotionally I think women are the same whether they come from the UK,Peru or indeed any country in the world.

I will need to rethink my pro-choice stance if this is the bullshit it ultimately leads to - that women are blamed for not terminating.

What people want in the abstract is nothing to do with what they should or will do faced with an actual pregnancy. How would the legal document mentioned be fair to the child in question, when it is born and acquires rights of its own? I don't see how a mother can sign away rights that belong to the offspring rather than to the mother.

A woman has more options once pregnant because of biology. Prior to conception I think you'll find they both have equal options. The option of not having sex with someone, the option of using contraception, the option of sexual acts that carry no risk of pregnancy etc

You are anti choice? You surprise me. See my shocked face

"The baby only exists here and now because of a choice the woman made". I see you are saying that to get round the fact that the baby exists because both of them had sex.
But it's like saying the baby I have next door who's going to keep me up much of the night only exists because I didn't kill it last night. Factually true, but meaningless.

It would be no different to a woman using a sperm bank in legal terms.

A woman can choose to conceive a child without a man even being in the room, a woman could, in theory, choose to have a child without ever telling a man he was about to become a Father. A woman could have a child and lie to the child about who the father is.

A woman has a lot of power in this whole thing, whereas a man has none. As long as the law allows women way more rights than a man has, then the extra legal responsibility a woman has should reflect that.

A woman has more options once pregnant because of biology

Right. So she can have more of the responsibility as well.

Oh no! A woman has more rights than a man about something?

Oh Festive. There's just a whole army of rights-infested single mothers out there aren't there, laughing at how they got one over on all the absent fathers who contribute nothing financially or who let the kids down emotionally. They sit mumsnetting and laughing about how they planned it all.

Wtf Festive

I am truly shocked.

Whilst we insist on having rights over our bodies old Festive thinks we should be punished for our wickedness by letting fathers walk away.

Yes, you are right. Because women are the ones who carry babies and give birth to them, devious creatures that they are for engineering things to be this way, it is only correct and proper that they should then for the rest of their lives have sole responsibility for another person. And men, the poor little loves, should be able to walk away from the children they have fathered.

Actually, you know what? Can it. That is already what happens, and it's depressing enough that it does without some fool on the internet pontificating about pre-sex agreements and the like in a ham-fisted attempt to justify the act of an adult person refusing to play any part in a life that he has created.

The morning after pill doesn't work - that's what my GP said. She advised me not to rely on it when I asked for it once.

There aren't words for how unsettled I feel about what Festive is saying.

Hope none of my friends think like you do.

I just think this thread and the fact it was started in the first place shows how people, generally are conditioned to blame women and say 'they had it coming' as is the case in any situation.

I see some of the same people sneering at the concept of feminism. It's a real shame.

When a man and a woman are equal in creating a baby, I do believe they should have equal responsibility, both practically and financially.

But in a situation like the OP describes, where contraception was used, they found out early enough for abortion, and the man made it clear he didn't want a child, then it's fine for the woman to decide she wants to keep her baby, but it's not fine for her to expect someone with no option to go along with that.

Obviously, there is no way to prove in every case whether contraception was used and whether a man said he did or didn't want the child, but then that's why we have a benefits system that disregards how much money a mother gets from a father.

I just don't think it's fair that one persons choices can have such a drastic effect on another persons life, especially when that other person has done all they reasonably can to avoid the situation and has made their position clear.

Of course a woman should have the right to say what happens to their own body. That much should go without saying. But a man has just as much right to say what happens to his own life, and I think it's massively unfair that a woman can inflict 18 years of financial responsibility on a man because of the choices she makes for her own body.

I doubt that Festive has many friends, so you're probably safe on that score.

Yes, I really hate hate this attitude that a woman going ahead with an unplanned pregnancy is trying to trap the man.