To Be Annoyed about this (Poss SN) Childs Behaviour

[fantasticfanjo]

Ok so we went to The Panto last night which wasn't a cheap night out with the tickets costing £100 + for 4 of us.

We were sat 4 seats in with a family of 4 occupying the end 4.

The Father of other the family preceded to lift his DS aged about 10/11 over the seats (spare) to the row in front so he could get a better view and was now sat directly in front of my DP.

This child then spent the entire performance jumping up and down on the seat in front,shouting loudly for sweets,flapping arms,banding his head with his shoes which he'd taken off and generally distracting everyone around him. To give the father credit he did repeatedly tell the child to shut up /sit down and threaten him etc.

Although My experience of ASD is quite limited, I'm assuming the boy was on the Autistic spectrum and although the panto is a family performance and I expect to be disturbed by kids needing a wee,rustling sweets etc AIBU to be pissed off with our evening be ruined especially seeing the boy could have been seated on the end of the aisle where he would have disturbed others less ?

Starfish

Why don't you try asking if a black person should be removed from the theatre because of the colour of his skin?

Obviously, the resounding answer would be no, and anyone who didn't automatically come to that answer would be considered racist.

But then ask the question, (which is actually the reality) should someone be removed from the theatre because they are making it impossible for others to see or hear the show because of their behaviour.

Common sense would tell you that yes, it is ok to remove someone from a theatre if they are making it impossible for others to see or hear the show.

The colour of their skin or their level of disability is irrelevant, the fact is that they are making it impossible for others to see or hear the show.

If people think it's ok for them to make it impossible for other people to see or hear a show that they have paid to see and hear, then they are being selfish. It's that simple. To then take it one step further and accuse someone of prejudice and superiority over someone else because of the they just want to see and hear a show they have paid to see and hear is just bizzare in my opinion.

I am not sure that other people's enjoyment would be totally ruined lady mariner, this seems a bit exaggerated. But I would say that disabled people have as much right as NT people to enjoy a trip out. If their enjoyment means that they make more noise and flap their arms and jump up and down at a bloody panto then yes I would expect Nt people to cope with this.

The real problem is who you end up next to. I have been on a train where ds1 was being hugely challenging (he wanted it to go) but the last next to us was lovely. She had a severely autistic grandson mind.

I have been in an outdoor space where ds1 has done nothing other than be a bit autistic - no effect on anyone else - to be met with a lot of grief.

Other people really are the problem - if we could filter out the tolerant from the uptight whenever we went somewhere we'd have no problems.

FGS I really don't see how some people can fail to understand that some disabilities affect people's behaviour and social communication. It is a symptom of their disability. What do you suggest? should these people be locked away or only allowed to attend events for disabled people?

Sharing experiences willingly and without grudge or judgement is absolutely what we should expect from a civilised population, I completely agree.

But there has to be a balance.

Of course people are just being intolerant and bigoted if they won't put up with a small amount of disruption to include a child with SN, but where do we draw the line?

Is it ok in your mind to completely ruin the experience for other people because of a disability?

I appreciate that it's only in very extreme examples where some own else's experience is likely to be completely ruined, but the way some people are talking on this thread, they do seem to believe that it's ok to take it that far in the name of inclusion.

Am really shocked this thread is allowed to stand..it basically consists of people arguing for the segregation of disabled children due to behaviour caused by their disability and people trying to argue against it.

How abhorrent

But I would say that disabled people have as much right as NT people to enjoy a trip out.

So would I cansu. So we are agreeing that NT people have a right to enjoy the theatre then?

That's exactly right, JJ, no-one decent or reasonable expects a child (or adult) to be told off for being disabled. No-one has the right to tell someone off for being disabled. And anyone who does tut or stare isn't worth bothering about. At the same time, if a parent can minimise any disruption in a place where people are trying to pay attention, that is helpful. God, I'm almost getting all sick-buckety and saying 'why can't we all just get along...'.

As it happens, I've been working hard to try to encourage staff and my fellow governors at ds's school to be more welcoming/thoughtful about the needs of children with learning disabilities. (It's easier for people to grasp how to/the need to adapt to physical disabilities.) Some people just didn't know enough to realise how things needed to change, some parents worried that there would be a negative impact on their own child, one or two people were actively hostile. But we are making progress. Mostly by creating opportunities for people to talk together and learn together. For staff to listen to parents and find out what their children are like as people outside school, not just the snapshot they see during the school day, for instance.

It's not perfect, we aren't there yet but I do hope the changes a few of us are driving will mean parents don't end up taking their children out because they aren't getting the support they need, as has happened in the past. Every child deserves to be welcomed into our school and to get the very best education we can offer. And I hope one side-effect will be that the NT children grow up to see people as people, and will not be tutters or starers.

No one is arguing for the segregation of disabled people!

You are completely twisting people's words, and conveniently ignoring things that are put to you by just accusing people of disablism.

Arguing that people have a reasonable expectation that they will be able to see and hear a show that they have paid to see and hear is not the same as arguing in favour of segregation

Festive ime ds1 breathing ruins the day for some people. Absolutely I would not let him cause massive disruption (would remove him) but some people have ridiculously low tolerance & I do not concern myself with them. In this case I think the OP should have asked whether he could be moved back rather than seething about it.

Pantomime - I honestly don't think I'll ever allow my son near a mainstream environment again. BTDT got the war wounds.

You are saying people with disabilities only have the right if they can control their behaviour. Which they often can't. Utter discrimination. You should be ashamed festive.

Festive you are being intentionally obtuse.

Child who is distressed by something is actually distressed. It is quite wrong to leave a child who is distressed in that suituation.

Child who exhibits symptoms of a disability but is not distressed should not be removed

Do you understand the difference?

You are saying people without disability have no right at all if there's a disabled person around.

It's not me that needs to be ashamed, because I am considering the needs of more than one person.

Sadly though I suspect that the mere presence of a disabled child making a little noise would sully their perfect day out sufficiently for them to wish the disabled child hadn't been there.

And if that happens, that would be wrong and I would agree that would be disablist.

Sock, yes, of course I can see the difference. I still don't think it's right that someone can make it impossible for other people to enjoy the theatre whether or not that is related to disability.

But it was a pantomime where noise and movement is par for the course so yes in that instance it was unreasonable for the OP to expect that the child was removed and had it been such an issue then surely they could have moved themselves. This will be my stance when I take my dd to the panto later.
I wouldn't however take her to the Royal Ballet because I can't guarantee that she wouldn't disturb others.
It's give ad take from both sides needed.

Yeah, I know, and it's desperately sad and unfair that that is not an uncommon experience. A few of us are trying to make sure that isn't something that happens in ds's school in future. One of ds's best friends turns out to have ADHD - something that wasn't diagnosed until recently, but he's needed support throughout his time at school. The interesting thing is that, unlike some experiences I've read about on here, he's always been very popular amongst his classmates, despite the fact that he has sometimes behaved in ways that have affected other children negatively.

Lots of NT people are ruddy irritating at the theatre, btw.

So, just to be clear, are some of you saying that you think it's ok for people to spoil a special experience for someone else if the reason they are spoiling it is because of a disability?

Maybe it hasn't happened to you much festive. People often react very badly to ds1 doing absolutely nothing. Which is why I rely on my judgement as to whether ds1 is doing something disruptive and difficult or whether the other person is an intolerant lemon sucking arse.

If he is genuinely being disruptive of course we leave. If the other person is one of life's lemon suckers I leave then to stew in their own misery.