to tell dh that I am a SAH mum not SAH skivvy. (not literally sah)

[manchester04]

Dh and I have had a disagreement re roles in the house. It started as an expression of surprise that i had been out alot this week. Have two school aged dc and a 3 1/2 month old so last week of term pretty busy. Turns out he thinks the house is untidy /ironing behind because i go out too much during the week. Apparrently I should be able to get everything done during the week so we can do stuff as a family at weekend.(although some of this stuff is him going to football or playing computer games)
I maintain that the reason i am behind is because he doesn't help enough. He leaves all of the childcare for the newborn to me. That is 24/7. Plus i pretty much had to cope on my own post csection. Only had one day where he was at home once i came out of hospital. He didn't even do some ironing when I couldn't do it. He cooks the odd meal and does a bit of shopping and may load the dishwasher occassionally. O and puts the bins out. Does do DIY and garden but they are not everyday chores.
I am tempted in the New year to go and buy another laundry basket for his washing and tell him that i will not be doing his laundry or picking up after him in future.
Clearly he thinks that working/commuting for 13 hours per day is enough.
Appologies for this being abit of a thread about a thread but I would appreciate your thoughts. Thank you.

Hmmm...I have two thoughts here.

Firstly, I don't agree that your dh should be helping out with the chores around the house as a matter of course if he's doing 13 hour days - I had 3 under 4 1/2 and did them all as my dh was working stupid hours (although he's a knob if he left you to iron post c section) However, having said that, my dh would NEVER have mentioned the ironing or anything else and if needed would have just got on with it...there were times when he ran out of shirts and just did one himself. Effectively I think you both need to think of the other one a bit more and start to communicate - it's a partnership and it sounds like you're both having a competition.

It always surprises me how many men discussed on MN behave like this. I think you need to stand your ground and tell him you are SAH to look after the children and that taking them out benefits them etc.

I do think you should do more laundry/housework etc than him of course as he is out 13 hours a day etc but I think his attitude is rude TBH.

I made sure that DH didn't have to clear up when he came home and do all the cooking but he would come straight in and take over the kids from me so I could clear up if I didn't have time during the day. Most of my clearing up took place between 6 and 7pm when he was putting the DCs to bed. DH does all the ironing as I was not comfortable doing this with the DCs around. DH is by no means perfect so please don't think I am being smug - he often needs asking to help out and will admit this but is happy to help with anything.

I am not sure that telling him to do his own laundry is the answer as you really should be able to talk to him about it and sort it out but if he is not willing to compromise then it sounds like the only thing to do - I personally couldn't live with someone who thought that little of me though.

Can he help with the baby when he comes home? Surely he wants to spend time with the baby when he has been at work all day. Sorry I can't be more helpful but I am not entirely sure what you can say to him - if he has this old fashioned attitude about how you should be as a SAHM he is unlikely to change.

Do you have equal leisure time? That's the way to measure it.

And he'd be pulling his weight as an equal partner rather than 'helping'.

Doesn't sound great so far

And leisure time means stuff you want to do for you, not doing stuff with/for the kids

If he does 13 hour days that would mean he is out of the house at 8 am and comes back at 9 pm. I don't think he should have to do much housework through the week or cook. He just simply isn't there. He could do a bit at weekends. And if you had a c-section he should have done his best to take the load of you.

Sorry I missed the specifically 13 hours bit - that is a long time out of the house, I am guessing he his not in to help with the baby at bed times.

I work now and I leave at 7am and get back at 630pm twice a week (not 13 hours but long day) and I would do anything that needs doing at home as although I leave early 630/7 is not mega late to get home and expect to do nothing but if I came home at 9pm say, I wouldn't want to. It really depends on what time he is home I think.

This does not detract from the way he speaks to you and the fact he does not pull his weight at other times.

Leaves house at 6.30. Home by 7.30pm. Obviosly I fully expect to do most of the chores due to this. However, I just wish he would just pull his weight abit more at weekends when home or maybe load dishwasher in evening when I am dealing with baby/bedtime.

6.30 am. Although when working from home day is less long.

If he is home by 730 then I think that you should expect that sort of help at the least!

I'm so glad my husband doesn't read mumsnet!

I'm out of the house at 7.30, back at 6.30 / 7 ish.

I do zilch in terms of housework, laundry, clearing up ... I might cook dinner occasionally, but he'll have prepped it (chopping veg, peeling spuds, etc).

His take is that I work (bloody hard) outside the home to earn our family money. He works the same hours inside the home keeping the family running. One school age DS, one preschool DS, one family business for which he does all invoicing / tax / accounts filing.

By the time he's cleared up after dinner & I've read the boys a bedtime story & done pyjamas & teeth, we both get to sit & watch tv for an hour or 2. Weekends we do family stuff because he does all house stuff in week while I'm at work.

Iteo, it sounds like you both have the same amount of leisure time from that - as soon as you get home, you do bedtime with the kids.

Hmm, I think both of you ABU and ANBU in different ways.

He seems to be incredibly unsupportive of your post CS recovery, that's a real problem. Was he like this after having your first two children?

He is also being unreasonable to claim that he wants weekends free for family leisure time, if he is not offering you equal opportunity to jump into your hobbies or spend time away from the children as he seems to.

I hesitate to say you are being unreasonable, because it seems like he isn't pulling his weight domestically. This is the major issue that needs to be resolved, which I think would incentivise you to do what you can to give you both weekends off from housework.

I don't discount the stress of working long days for someone else, so I also feel for him somewhat. Those hours are wearing, the job may also be demanding and there is a lot of pressure knowing that your salary is looking after five people who all depend on you. I don't presume to know what your baby is like, but I think in most cases it's not overly difficult to do some basic maintenance during the day to keep things presentable - washing dishes, chucking on a load of washing.

In your situation, my husband would be pulling his weight, since anything less for either of us is unacceptable. Whoever was working long hours would take over the childcare as soon as they got home, as they need to make the most of the time spent with their children. The other would do any housework which couldn't be done during the day. This means both of us would be able to sit back on the couch about the same time, and the weekends would be free-er to relax and enjoy ourselves.

Also, why are you dealing with the baby & bedtime always? Aside from breast feeding, if you're doing that, he could take charge of everything else. Nice way to spend time with the kids who he hasn't seen much during the day, and you can catch up with anything else you need to do.

Iteo but you do exactly what it sounds like the OP would like her DH to do - help with the DCs when he gets home.

If I had no help with the kids after DH got home I think I would have had no energy to get up and sort the kids out and the house each day. Its a nice break having them taken off your hands for an hour even if you are clearing up or preparing tea.

Those are long hours to work and being the sole earner is a lot to bear anyway. You say he cooks sometimes, does the bins, can do the diswasher and does the garden and diy so sounds like he already does quite a bit.

Given two of the three children are school aged, its not out of the ordinary to assume household jobs could be done during the day.

Does he like doing these hours and does he have to do them? Is he normally like this or is he stressed at work particularly atm?

13 hours is a long day. I'm not saying your life is a bed of roses and how he is speaking to you sounds out of order

13 hours a day is 65 hours per week. That is a lot by anyone's standards (except the Americans)

If it were my relationship I would try and talk to him before telling him to do his own laundry.

Ducks If he has to work these hours to provide for you I think he sounds like a good DH to be honest oh my god what have I said?

'he thinks the house is untidy /ironing behind because i go out too much during the week. Apparrently I should be able to get everything done during the week so we can do stuff as a family at weekend.'

Of course he's entitled to his own opinion, but this bit of your OP really makes me feel uncomfortable.

What you do in the day and where you go is your own business IMO (within reason), it's not for him to tell you to stop in the house within office hours and do more housework!

The first thing that came to my mind was 'you can fuck right off y'cheeky fuck '.

What's he going to do if you don't? Chain you to the sink??

I stay at home and DH goes out to work, and up until recently I've never done any paid work, but DH wouldn't dream of commenting on my housewifely skills, because he knows where they'd be shoved if he did/thankfully doesn't think like that.

He's at work thirteen hours per day, does a bit of cooking, a bit of shopping, loads the dishwasher, puts the bins out, does the gardening and does the DIY.

I don't think you can in all honesty say he's not contributing much.

said it before - your job is childcare, and that's what you're doing.
if he's complaining about the house (ie moaning about nothing), and out so many hours, are you sure he's hasn't got another woman?

If you both have the same leisure time in the evening and he does diy/dishwasher/meal at weekends then I think that's fair enough.

Him telling you house is in a state is rude and he'd be told to fuck right off if he was my dh. I'm basing this on the assumption that you usually take care of everything and it's usually pretty sorted. Also having no help after c section is rubbish-if he can't not work perhaps you should have both organized ironing sent out and so on?
I do think it's ok in specific circs to tell a partner they're not pulling their weight, but when it's a busy week and you're not quite on top of the ironing- really disrespectful and rude.

OP I understand my DH is similar and I just don't do his ironing sometimes it piles up and eventually I capitulate normally after a row and then end up doing it for him anyway so Iwouldn't recommend the basket idea. My DH comes home at a similar time but leave 1 1/2 hours later than yours. He gets up gets himself ready and leaves around 8 - I get up at 6.30 so I can get our 3 DC ready for school leave at 8.30 drop them off and go to work. I only work 4 mornings so I am SAHM according to my DH - I cook, clean, wash, iron, shop cook - do everything that the DC need , fix their dinner, tidy up, do hamework, piano practice and bath and bedtime and cook second dinner for DH and I after I have the DC in bed (DS a bit older so does that himself) but I rarely am ready to cook until 9ish so I'm knackered by then. DH after a hard day at work comes in takes ages getting changed, comes downstairs and gets on the computer and will go upstairs to kiss DC goodnight - on a good day he'll do a story with on or other of them. At the weekends he too feels that I should have had all the house done so we can have 'family' time and occasionally helps with bins, sometimes dust or hoovers the front room (none of the rest of our large house mind you) and spends the rest of the weekend playing on the computer unless I drag him out witht he family. He does do Saturday dinner but sometime 'forgets' to go and get food for the dinner so I end up finding something to rustle up as it is easier than giving directions how to cook something he'd rather not. No DIY gets does in our house as I don't have time and DH can't because the house is too untidy or cluttered or there's 'just no time'.
Advice to you - set your ground rules now - yes you should be doing the most of it but not all of it. With DC1 I was a SAHM - as we had more DC and I took on more work DH has done less and less over the years. Tell him how you want him to contribute and make him promise - if you go back to work make it clear you can't be expected to do it all. I'm too late I accept that I am a single mum with an extra teenager and so long as I keep that in mind I can keep going - I am not a single mum and things would be harder if I was. But for your DCs sake try and get him to be a bit more hands on with them - my DC have a odd realtionship with DH- he isn't hands on I do everything, they come to me for everything they want/need even if it means they have walk past DH to get to me. He does help with the discipline but i wish he'd spend the fun times withem too - he does sometimes but most of the time it's the grumpy stuff. Don't let your DH get to be like mine - you have time to stop it happeneing, it's too late for me.

I remember my nan, who was in her 90's at the time, telling me to make sure I did not end up like her with a husband incapable of doing anything at all. She did absolutely everything for him and she completely accepted it was her fault. It was then his expectation (not in a nasty way) that it was how life was.

She said start as you mean to go on and make it an equal relationship. She adored my DH as he was so hands on and often commented on how lucky I was. I am not sure it was entirely luck but also the fact that he is just that sort of person and also that I followed her advice.

He's at work thirteen hours per day, does a bit of cooking, a bit of shopping, loads the dishwasher, puts the bins out, does the gardening and does the DIY.

I don't think you can in all honesty say he's not contributing much.

^^ This.

He probably feels that he is pulling his weight as he is obviously working hard. However, small babies are exhausting and you need a break as well sometimes. As a SAHM, I do think that the bulk of household chores should fall to you, as it's easy enough to get things done when you're at home. However, he should pitch in with the kids and the chores at weekends. I think you should talk to him about how you feel.

SAH - the clue is in the H = home. Your 'job' at present tis to rear children, which includes a clean environment for them, clean clothes, and facilitating their fathers earning potential eg to run the home efficiently. No it's not the 1950's before someone comes along and accuses me of being in a time warp.

His job is to provide his family with a roof, food and necessities - he's upholding his part of the bargain. Please don't tell me SAHs spend an equivalent to 13 hours a day cleaning, scrubbing and attending baby ballet. I know it's not true. Even when I had 3 under 5 I had a clean house, laundered clothes, a cooked meal and the children weren't duct taped down to allow me to uphold my end of the bargain.

Weekends are a different ball game - that is 50/50 chore time, one cooks the other cleans up - that maximises family time.

"Turns out he thinks the house is untidy /ironing behind because i go out too much during the week."

The answer to that is "fuck off, you are not my boss."

The important letter in SAHM is M (not sodding H).

You are not a housekeeper. It is not your job to deny your children opportunities to do stuff during the week so that he doesn't have to lift a finger at the weekend.