A rant about cocaine

[Abitwobblynow]

The subject of coke makes me see red and come over all old testament.

Do people who use this 'harmless, no big deal, I don't use it much' drug have any idea how it is made, and the impact THEIR PERSONAL BEHAVIOUR has on the countries where it comes from (and all the courier countries in between)?

I would like to wave a totalitarian wand and do a mass testing of the population. Then everyone who tests positive be chucked into a military transport plane and flown over to Latin America.

Then, be given wellington boots, a donkey, 4 huge sacks of coca leaves, a tarpaulin, a drum of diesel and a spade, and made to walk their spoiled selfish western arses up the slopes of the Andes to find a mountain stream.

Then, after climbing steadily uphill for a long time, to dig a swimming pool-shaped hole and line it with tarpauline. Then damn the stream. Then, pour in all the coca leaves and start treading, treading, treading with their already blistered soft feet.

then, pour in the diesel and tread some more. Feet will be raw by now. They will now be into several days of hell. Then, carefully undamn the stream and pour all that polluted shit water down the mountainside to contaminate all the environment below it, and harvest the tiny little bit of concentrate that has been panned into a carefully built corner, slightly lower than the others.

Then, to sell what they made to some murderous psychopath, for $200. Days of work and all that destruction, for $200. And not to worry about the 10000s of % profit mark up, because there is nothing they can do anyway.

Then, drag their exhausted fat asses down the mountainside, and go into the mortuaries of the towns. I think they should be given the task of sewing the heads of all the people who have been decapitated back on. And go on mortuary duty and collect the decomposed bodies and pick out with tweezers all the blow fly maggots, so the relatives can have some sort of body to work with in the funeral.

Then, go and talk to all the widows, the children who have lost their fathers, the widows of the journalists and government workers who were brave enough to stand up to the cartels who were gunned down and decapitated. They can reminisce whose head they sewed on!

Then, come back and tell the rest of us how snorting cocaine is 'no big deal' .

And these are people who preach organic, meusli and Greenpeace shoving shit up their noses!

You nasty, hateful, destructive HYPOCRITES! Look at yourselves and who you are hurting!

Cut and paste to anyone you know who is a 'casual user'

But wallison, as the law stands, drugs like cocaine are illegal, so every drug user is a problem drug user because they are breaking the law. Unless you're trying to say some people are allowed to break the law?

I posted a long post but it hasnt come through.

Others have said what I wanted to say anyway re other industries that are less than squeaky clean that westerners partake in without a second thought.

Quicklookbusy Thanks, yes I was serious!

We are all posting on laptops/PCs/smartphones etc and it is well documented about that industry and how it affects those involved in their manufacture and disposal.

I suppose some feel that our access to technology is more justified than our potential access to drugs?

"some feel that our access to technology is more justified than our potential access to drugs?" - are you being sarcastic here?

No Cailin?

I'm talking about the fact that it is well known that people involved in their manufacture and disposal are harmed by it, who is prepared to give up their use of technology because of it?

What is the difference? [going purely on the issue of how it affects those involved in the manufacture, the moral issue of drug use aside as we are discussing the manufacturing issues here]

The law is, in my opinion, wrong, CailinDana. Adults should not be criminalised for choosing what to put into their bodies, and it is the fact of criminalisation that makes it a problem. Also, as I said, if the trade were legalised, it would solve a lot of problems in the producing countries.

So Amber you think the benefits of technology, in terms of the economy, allowing people to communicate etc, are on a par with the benefits of drugs?

I'm not sure Wallison. Wouldn't we then have a situation where along with spending billions on treating smokers and drinkers the NHS would also have to spend further billions on treating drug users? Or do you think legalising drugs wouldn't increase their use?

BTW Wallison, I do agree that criminalising drugs clearly isn't working, but at the same time I'm not sure legalising them is a solution. I don't know what the solution is.

I don't know if legalisation would increase drug use, but I suspect not. Drugs are easy enough to get hold of anyway, so the law doesn't affect supply. Anybody who wanted to take cocaine tonight probably could. The reason that most people don't on any given day isn't, I suspect, because they are illegal, but because a lot of people just don't want to take them most of the time - because they want to stay straight in order that they can do their job properly/look after their family/keep their house nice or whatever. I can't see that changing just because of a change in the law.

No I don't Cailin.

But we aren't talking about the benefits of either are we?

We are talking about the devastating effects of their production on those involved.

So are you saying the benefits of technology over ride the effects on the people who make them?

A social philosopher called Thomas Sowell said (on another issue) 'the West is sleepwalking to disaster'.

I agree. Our self-indulgence, our blindness, our excuses, our blaming 'society' and 'the Tories' instead of looking at ourselves, must stop. I look at the moral relativism of some of these posts ('well ipods and chocolate are just as bad' - ipods and chocolate don't result in a murder rate of 38 per 1000 in very specific countries related to cocaine production and movement!), and just shake my head. We in the West need to get a grip.

If I was Prime Minister Idi Amin (I am the size of Idi Amin, just about) I would ask the drug taking community very nicely, to desist, explaining why, and offering the concentrated help to do so (like herding them all onto one of those Scottish islands for 9 wks treatment with every drug counsellor and narc anon going. Rhum or Mull or s/where).

Then, if the demand did not drop significantly, I would warn them. You will be ingesting terminally poisoned drugs sometime randomly in the near future if you do not stop.

Then I would do it. Cocaine skunk and heroin. Useless self-indulgent narcissistic fucks.
A few deaths pour encourager les autres - and keep doing it so they never know when - and watch the demand plummet! No demand, no cartels. Why should only the third world have all the deaths, eh? Let's spread it around for fairness' sake.

'if drugs weren't fun people wouldn't take them'. - and what are you going to do with that irrelevant non-sequiter, Coming?

Of course they are fun. Sex is fun. ALL temptations are nice. The most exciting sex is adulterous sex because of the secrecy and the forbidden fruit. That is why the Devil is so compelling! [Wobbly shakes her African head] - you see, you don't read the bible any more! You think because it is 2012 in a sophisticated democracy human nature has changed? Human nature never changes.

The Father of the Lie whispers in our ear all the time leading us down paths that are soooooo pleasurable - until we have to pay with our souls and suffering.

Dr Faustus is as true a play as it ever was.

The reason that the murder rate is so high in production countries is because the trade is illegal, despite it forming such a large part of the economy. This illegality on a large scale is what leads to the deaths and misery, because a significant proportion of the economy is controlled by criminals. It's not to do with what the country produces per se, but who controls it. By criminalising trade in this way, the power has been pretty much handed over to the narcos.

Amber you originally said "some feel that our access to technology is more justified than our potential access to drugs." I would argue that yes, our access to technology is more justified than our potential access to drugs, given the benefits of each. That's not to say that we should ignore the injustices that occur in the development of technology (though I think they're been massively overblown in this thread - they are nowhere near on a par with the injustices in the drug industry) but without drugs our lives would be far better, without technology our lives would not be better and in some cases be a lot worse.

Legalise it? Make it a less lucrative trade for scumbag drug lords and corrupt governments? It seems back-to-front yo blame recreational drug users for the evils of the drug trade.

Cailindana

"but without drugs our lives would be far better, without technology our lives would not be better and in some cases be a lot worse."

I would disagree, I can think of loads of reasons why our lives would be better without technology, can you not?

I knew someone would say that sockmuppet. Ok I'll rephrase it. Our lives would undoubtedly be better without drugs and by that I don't mean drugs that cure diseases. It might be better without some technology but would be far worse without other types of technology.

Life can be pretty good with drugs though!

"I worked with a lot of people like that years ago. They were utter cunts who would go on and on and on and on about being vegetarians, buying free trade, recycling, the whole shebang, then pull out the drugs at the end of the night."

Yes, people, YOU are the ones I am talking to! The most thoughtless shallow and selfish of people. I don't care how speshul they are, they would be the number one target of my first contaminated batch (if I were Prime Minister Idi Amin) They are the ones who need to totter up mountain paths in their skinny jeans and Manolos. I am fairly sure they would be aghast at what THEY PAY FOR and turn into activists as a result...

As for diamonds? Please. Buy de Beers. The Oppenheimers have been stockpiling diamonds for a hundred years, there is no need to buy conflict.

(And are known in Africa to be the most decent of people, down to earth and quietly doing good works without any publicity. Did you know, that the denialist AIDS policy of South Africa was overturned by this one family alone? And that they spearheaded the end of apartheid, being the first to talk to the ANC (Gavin Relly delegation)? Without any confrontation or fanfare. Anglo American persuaded their employees to be tested in a very unique fashion which really understands the psyche of the African, administered ARVs as routine and proved without doubt that it was cheaper, more productive and kept families together; the stats were beyond question, so the South African government changed its policy and started free ARVs. The Oppenheimers literally have saved 100 000s of lives in Africa as a result, they are good good people, so lets not blur 'capitalism' with drug cartels).

I think that's the point though isn't it. It is not so black and white and it seems ironic that people get so upset about this issue (which I agree is awful) but still over buy other detrimental products without thought.

For a few people with certain conditions their lives are also better with some illegal drugs like weed and MS. It's just not black and white.

I think the people who posted about the irony of people buying fair trade but taking illegal drugs are ironic in themselves. They are condemning people for taking drugs whilst being consumers of diamonds, mobiles etc themselves.

It is the OVER consumption of everything that causes untold environmental and personal damage worldwide. And therefore it seems slightly hypocritical to be so judgemental on one issue because it's 'unnecessary' whilst over consuming say in plastics on the other because they are necessary items.

We all over consume and contribute to some of the issues raised like environment and abuse of poorer countries assets. Have you got the latest mobile?

Some crazy defensiveness on display here

Hmm Cailin, so do you think that the benefits of technology over ride the negative effects on those who make such things?

Obviously technology is better than drugs! but that isn't the point is it.

Or is it?

If you want technology, you are prepared to turn a blind eye to the suffering involved.

If you want drugs, you are prepared to turn a blind eye to the suffering involved.

It is all the same.

Amber

You have said it much better than me. I was trying to say the same thing!

I don't know, Sock. I think stating clear boundaries and then clear consequences actually work quite well in life. It is when we get muddled in all the grey that things get relative. It's not criminal's fault, it is society. If you change society and understand the pain of criminals better, make sure the police give them every chance they won't commit so much crime. - Well, how has that worked for Western society since the 60s????? [answer: crime on all levels has skyrocketed].

Compare and contrast with Sharia law, which is retributive still (ie there is a boundary and a clear swift consequence). You steal something, you get a shaming public beating, and then it is all finished. Go, and steal no more. Steal again, you get a serious and bad flogging. And then it is finished. Steal again, and you get your hand cut off.
You see? No pissing around, everyone is quite clear as to the consequences of their choices. Which is why you can leave your Porsche Cayenne with the door open and the keys in the lock in most muslim societies, and it will still be there in a week. I suggest to you that it is our progressive legal system that is cock-eyed. The British legal system used to be retributive, until the liberal right-ons got their hands on it.

For instance, if you are a healthy adult who KNOWS what you are doing is wrong (and not just because it is illegal, come on, didn't you READ what I wrote?), then it is a matter of choice. Dont' drag MS etc into it.

Remember how CS Lewis defined our sinfulness. We know perfectly well what is right and wrong, but we do it because we can. Wilfulness.

talcum powder is all mined by slaves(india), mostly children who work carrying it out of open cast mines in large lumps on their heads in baskets, they drop dead a lot, very shocking documentary a few years ago on it, but not convenient to think about.

coffee workers die of the effects of the process, held as workers who are always in debt to their "employers"

Communities that depend on an income from cocaine will always carry on, grow it legally, make fair trade and organic processed, then tax it.

conflict gems, congo, burma almost anywhere you get gems, there are serious problems, but most would not want to think to hard about the origins and implications.