to tell my in-laws they can't pay for my child to be educated privately because it seems a huge waste of money?

[StripeyBear]

My in-laws have offered to pay school fees for my son. He hasn't started school yet, so this would be all the way from preschool intake. They also did this for their other grandchildren. A very kind and generous offer, but....

I have been comparing the possible schools. Our State catchment school has a pass rate of 20% of S5 leavers achieving 5 or more Highers (sort of eqivalent to 3 A levels in the English system). There are 2 nearby private schools - one is selective and helps 80% of its pupils achieve 5 Highers, whilst the other takes anyone who can pay and gets 50% of its pupils 5 Highers. It is costly. Both private school charge around £10k a year - so we're talking about £120k for the whole thing in today's money.

My observation is that the private schools don't seem great. The State school can't select, so if you compare its results with the non-selective private one, it doesn't do that much better. I mean, half of the pupils at the paying school still don't get 5 Highers. Also, the State school is taking pupils from all socio-economic backgrounds - whilst you'd expect pupils at the private school to be privileged in terms of parental income, parental education levels etc.

My feeling is (given DS already benefits from educated parents - a good predictor of exam success, lots of encouragement and stimulus) that he probably stands as good a chance of exam success at the State school, rather than the ropey looking private ones... and that people will be more inclined to think his exams are good if he achieved them at a State School.

Neither of the private schools make it into the Sutton report of the top 100 schools. The only one anywhere near to us that is mentioned has fees of £20k and is very elite.

So, I think he would be better off in the State system, even if it means a polite - thank you, but no - to the grandparents. AIBU?

Aufanie: At the risk of derailing the thread, why is the view from a 'privileged' private school less 'real' than one from a state school?

I have known a number of privately educated people and I found that they were often a lot more rounded and broad minded than me and my state school educated brethren.

Of course you have the country mansion DC of third cousin to the Queen types who have servants to clean their muddy rugby boots. But today, those types are mostly to be found at Eton and Co as opposed to an 'ordinary' private school.

It's reverse snobbery to suggest that a person is lesser than you simply because they have more money. However, I will accept that some give the illusion of being out of touch with reality. I thinking of the one Polish dad who came to the UK pennless and is now the owner of a cleaning company. He can't relate to people who complain about how society favours the rich. Every body can become rich is his thinking and he has proved it but to some he and his DCs might have a privileged view of the world.

Posted too soon!
Private education isn't the be all and all. See what is best for your child in your area and go for it... If it means someone else paying as a gift. so what?????

20% of pupils getting 5 highers is actually nearly twice the national average (the percentage is calculated as a percentage of the school roll from the previous year so includes all those who left school after 4th year after standard grades and those who are doing vocational courses or a smaller number of Highers. That figure suggests to me that there will be a reasonable proportion of middle class children and no danger of a culture of underachievement, there will be very high achievement in the top sets and plenty of good clubs and activities.
DS1 and 2 attend a school with results @25% and it is excellent, we were at the Christmas concert this week and were treated to a chamber group, a jazz band, a brass band, a string orchestra, woodwind band, a folk group (and some guitars and street dance) as well as one boy from sixth year playing Liszt.

Don't compare with English schools, it won't make sense as the school system is too different.

If your local primary is good I wouldn't bother with prep either, unless you are a fan of loads of homework and really hate school sweatshirts.

School is more then grades. Visit them all first then decide. Maybe it might be better for the GP's to pay for degree costs and living instead?

Alternatively your boy could do most of his primary aged schooling locally to make local friends and then move on to the paying school at 10, with the GP's also covering the cost of a degree.

I think, in your op, you sound incredibly insightful and I think you'll make the rebut dev

Typo!!!

Right decision!!!

My two cents worth. School is to mix with the widest variety of people possible... Can't emphasise that enough!

I haven't read all the thread, so I apologise, but I just wanted to say that inverse snobbery is just as damaging as plain old snobbery. I have worked in state selective, state comprehensive, independent day school and boarding school and they all have their pros and cons. Yes some parents will be loaded, and have a world view that is different to yours. But some parents will be in the middle, and some will be scraping to pay the fees. Independent schools offer wrap around care that day schools cannot match, and extra curricular activities provided by specialist staff in a massive variety of different areas (polo anyone?!) I went to state school but have worked in the private sector for the last 10 years. There are good and bad private schools, there are good and bad state schools. Decide what is best for your son and leave YOUR insecurities aside. If you came on here and said that you didn't want him to go to the local comp because all the parents were chavs you'd quite rightly get a flaming. Your prejudices against private schools are just that. Prejudices. Go and look round them and then make your decision.

I am curious about where you are, if you are near me i have visited lots of the local schools and am happy to share my impressions in a PM.

Teacher 123, the private sector is about half the size up here and therefore attending state school is more "normal" for middle-class types, there is consequently much less snobbery/inverted snobbery (apart from in Edinburgh!).

I think visiting is a good idea - and don't just focus on exam results, its so depressing that we have taken the whole education experience and judged it just on exam results. I would rather DS got slightly lower grades but ends up with more self confidence than I had at 18.

If you think the whole education experience (not just exam results!) would be better at the private school, then go for that. You could reassess after primary. It might mean at least in the primary years it will be easier for you to work as most private primary schools offer great wrap around care.

Make sure there are no strings attached to the gift, will there be an expectation of the children entering the professions, for example, will there be recriminations if they decide to become potters or librarians?

Personally, I think in your situation I'd probably send my children to the local primary & then to private school at secondary age when they'd be old enough to take a bus. Don't forget that in the time it'll take your children to work their way up to the point where they'll be taking exams it's likely that all the schools will have changed a lot. I wouldn't be making any decisions about secondary school until necessary.

I'm planning on homeschooling our children at least until 11. I might consider sending them to a private school after that if my in-laws offered to pay. They're the only ones who'd be able to afford it! All the comps near us seem to be enormous & it's likely that our children would be completely overwhelmed, if they turn out like DH & I! Luckily we've also got quite a few private schools nearby of varying sizes. We'll probably be touring round every school in the city when the time comes. & then decide we'd prefer to continue homeschooling!

Actually, I don't think they are will. Inlaws are lovely - and very open to anything that may benefit.. I've recently given up work to stay at home, and they very kindly have allowed me to draw down the trust for mummy-toddler classes etc. They really are very flexible - as I'm sure this wasn't their intention when they set up the Trust 20 years ago!

I suppose that is partly why I want to get the decision right - they will trust our judgement and try and help us with whatver we decide - so (especially given all this private schooling marlarky is a bit of a foreign land to me) I feel the need to get it right - not just for DS (main thing of course) but not to waste their money!

JoJobells Yes - that is my other idea - homeschooling - I left that out as I felt it might cloud the issue.

I'd been thinking about that because I'd given up work to be a SAHM, and was wondering at what point to go back... 5 is very young still, isn't it? But school days are very short? And if you wanted to avoid lots of afterschool care, it suddenly struck me that homeschooling to 7 or 8 might be the perfect solution?

In addition to the pass marks I would be considering other benefits of the schools - such as pastoral care, class sizes, sports facilities, music and drama, how they deal with children with additional learning needs, eg dyslexia or stretching those who are especially gifted. And what the access is like to the secondary stage. I agree that being local and having local friends is a big factor.

Also, I would discuss the dilemma with the ILs, if it's their money, and they sound reasonable, then you can discuss your concerns about the private schools potentially not being worth the money. If there is a possibility of saving the money and using your DS's "share" further down the line, then that seems sensible.

We went down the state route, but paid for tutors when needed.

I'd go with the local Primary, then see what's what when secondary school gets nearer.

how far forward are you thinking?

where do the children mainly go on from all these schools. 80% against 20% the figures say it all and 50% is still high in compression to 20%.

i know sutton has good schools but go and visit them all see what feeling you get

and as for morals well they are my morals i really struggled sending ds to a private school but when i looked at their exam results, the schools most pupils went on to and visited the school my personal feelings and political views did not matter anymore him getting the best education we could get him did

the school ds got into (my last choice) was outstanding according to ofstead the exam results said something completely different and the other state school that was my first choice was also outstanding with more than twice as many children getting grade 5's

some of the children at ds school are from very old money families who are from different backgrounds to us but really everyone just wants the best for their children. yes there is some competiveness between some parents at the school gates but really you will get that anywhere just avoid it the children do not seem to care

personally i'd send him to a public school, as i wouldn't want to put that pressure on him, and ask in laws to put the money in a bank account for him for uni fee's/towards his own house in the future if they're being kind enough to spend that much on him still.

If he has any learning disabilities or you feel he may need some extra help then maybe it would be beneficial. but even then, public schools often offer more than adequate support to children who aren't managing as well with mainstream schooling.

Actually I think you are in a great position ; you can look at all the schools available without regard to cost . Try to ignore the fees issue and just choose the one you like best .

OP there is a huge variety in culture within private schools. Some are snobby, and full of seriously wealthy people. Others are made up of normal hard-working professionals who make sacrifices for their kid's education. I've taught seminars at several private secondaries in London, and was astonished at how different they can be.

I recommend as other posters have - stop considering hypothetical situations. Consider actual schools. Go and visit them, feel the atmosphere, have a chat with head teachers, voice your concerns and meet the students. You cannot make a decision (an unhysterical one anyways) without doing this. It's a very very generous offer and I would be largely positive about it until you're certain otherwise. BTW my DD attends state school, so I have no axe to grind here.