to tell my in-laws they can't pay for my child to be educated privately because it seems a huge waste of money?

[StripeyBear]

My in-laws have offered to pay school fees for my son. He hasn't started school yet, so this would be all the way from preschool intake. They also did this for their other grandchildren. A very kind and generous offer, but....

I have been comparing the possible schools. Our State catchment school has a pass rate of 20% of S5 leavers achieving 5 or more Highers (sort of eqivalent to 3 A levels in the English system). There are 2 nearby private schools - one is selective and helps 80% of its pupils achieve 5 Highers, whilst the other takes anyone who can pay and gets 50% of its pupils 5 Highers. It is costly. Both private school charge around £10k a year - so we're talking about £120k for the whole thing in today's money.

My observation is that the private schools don't seem great. The State school can't select, so if you compare its results with the non-selective private one, it doesn't do that much better. I mean, half of the pupils at the paying school still don't get 5 Highers. Also, the State school is taking pupils from all socio-economic backgrounds - whilst you'd expect pupils at the private school to be privileged in terms of parental income, parental education levels etc.

My feeling is (given DS already benefits from educated parents - a good predictor of exam success, lots of encouragement and stimulus) that he probably stands as good a chance of exam success at the State school, rather than the ropey looking private ones... and that people will be more inclined to think his exams are good if he achieved them at a State School.

Neither of the private schools make it into the Sutton report of the top 100 schools. The only one anywhere near to us that is mentioned has fees of £20k and is very elite.

So, I think he would be better off in the State system, even if it means a polite - thank you, but no - to the grandparents. AIBU?

There were kids at my secondary school who went to prep, they certainly weren't all spoilt brats. On the contrary, many of them came from families where their parents made a lot of sacrifices to send them to that school.

Look at the prospectus and take a look around them, make as much of an informed decision as you can. There's so much more to school than just exam results- for example, one prep near us does regular archery lessons as well as loads of other stuff that you wouldn't see in your "standard" school. If you go to look at either and can really see DS being happy there, then I think it would be unfair to him to turn down their offer.

YANBU as it is up to you. You do need to do what you feel is right for your DS at the end of the day.

I agree with the others saying that the grades aren't the only thing - you need to look at the other benefits the schools offer. The private schools may not be as good as the state school in other areas or vice versa but I chose the pre-prep my DS goes to for many many other reasons.

I don't think that going to school with the friends they already have at 3/4 is really relevant as they are not true friends at that age and the ones they are actually closer to they will still see after school anyway.

My DS would have gone to a different state school to his closest friend so it made no difference anyway but now he also benefits from a class of 14 boys (plus the girls class as well when they mix) who hopefully will be his friends until he is 16. Their relationship is lovely to see and they are really close after just 1 term.

DS1 is still at a state school and the relationship is very different with his class of 30 (well 3 mixed classes of 30 Y1/2's)

DS2's pre-prep is very ordinary, not flashy parents, excellent results but non-selective, family orientated and lots of lovely extras. It is not expensive either. I was opposed to private schools before DCs for all the wrong reasons and an outdated attitude.

UKGrinch
Yes, this sums it up for me - I am worried we will send him to "a ropey second rate private school that will do neither harm nor good, but waste a lot of money. We will go and look at the schools - though I must confess I feel a bit lost about the extra-curricular stuff - because he is so young - and can't children do extra stuff outside school anyway?

The travel does put me off. A lot.

I am asking here, because I know it is a hugely generous offer and a lot of money - and I feel churlish. I was State educated and didn't enjoy the experience one bit, but I suppose my prejudice (if any) is that some privately educated people can come across as er... (slightly) superior. I would also be anxious that DS would be amongst much better off peers and might begin to feel hard done by - as we don't have a holiday home in Aspen, can't ski etc. That is perhaps slightly hysterical of me...

Your son will never forgive you.
What is your DH opinion or will you override that as well
Reverse snobbery is ghastly.

[do remember, I don't give a damn about flaming, so don't waste bandwidth]

Thanks Susanann I suppose that is what I want to hear. I got a 1st at uni and went to state school - so he might have done - but I was fecking miserable. I suppose this cuts to it - if DS got the same results in both types of school, but came out from the private school with higher self esteem and more confidence, and had a better experience, then it would be worth every penny - but my worry would be that it would turn him into a precocious brat that looked down on his own family :)

Stripey he probably won't turn into a brat if you stick to ropey private schools and avoid elite ones

Travel yes, that would bother me. But as to superiority, skiing etc, I think that is a bit U really.

I'm sure you wouldn't, in general, advocate choosing a secondary school before a child had even started in preschool! And that's kind of what you'd be doing, or at least narrowing the choice.

Basically, are you allowing a slight pre-existing prejudice to prompt you to run some very simple basic numbers on one aspect of an education, and make a pretty wholesale decision on the basis of that?

Sorry if this has been said, but what if you have 2/3/4 more children? Will they have the same generosity shown to them?

IMO as long as you are providing a balance at home regarding money and behaviour, then he is unlikely to turn into a "precocious brat" just because he is going to private school.

Do you have to make the decision now? Can you send him to the school you suspect is best for him (the state primary) with the option to change later if you feel it's not working out?

He is your son and it is absolutely a decision for you and your husband to make as to where he is educated. Thank them for the very kind and generous offer but say that you think the local state school will suit him better (I certainly would).

I'd bite their hand off. I went to state primary and private secondary. The difference between my v reasonably priced independent school (to which I had a massive bursary, scholarship and assisted place) and the cr@phole my brother went to was unbelievable. Even the 'good' local state school had incredibly depressingly low aspirations for their children. None of the children I went to primary school with went to university. Actually that's not true, two of them did and it made the local paper.

There is a big difference in culture between private and state schools, it wil have an affect on the way his personality develops. (At least there was when I went to school. I attended both a private and a state secondary school. They were worlds apart.)

Which one suits him better is impossible to judge now though!

For me it was the state school, but won't be the same for everyone!

Could you look round both schools to see what you think of them? Ethos makes a big difference IME. I thought I had our DS's school choices worked out by the reputation of the schools, but my opinion has totally changed since visiting them.

I would think long and hard about this

mainly because private educatio can open doors and provide opportunities for him

I get your feeling, but this is quite a big deal

and yes, what does DH think?

I also would not assume that all private school kids will be from snobby families

Even if they're not from snobby families, if you're the "poor" one by comparison it'll be obvious. Like in Geography, for example "where did you go on holiday this summer?"
Most of the girls in my school: "Barbados", "Disney World California", "Bermuda" etc etc.
Me "The Isle of Skye" (Had a great time!)
Other girls:

Not that it bothered me, I was pretty tough skinned as a teen, but you do stand out for not being as wealthy as the rest. We were no means poor either I should add - just not loaded!

It may not be a problem particularly though!

He will only turn out a precocious brat if you low him to become one. My dses are all independently educated and as far as I am aware none are like this . Ds1 in particular is a fully paid up socialist atheist member of the Fabians ,

We live in quite an affluent area and frankly our local state school has more Holister and Abercrombie than you can shake a stick at!

More seriously I liked the independent school because I want them to be "educated " in the true sense of the word . In my opinion the certificates should be the by product of a good education not the purpose .

The reason I said my son would not have got his 1st at uni if he had stayed where he was was because of the bullying. It was physical and nearly every day. He got to the point where he wasnt learning anything, even though hes bright, because he was constantly terrified! What the private school did for him and his issues was amazing. Sorry im going off topic I know. His friends at the private school were polite, friendly and well rounded. Yes they often had posh cars but they did not look down on us. I cant thank or praise the school enough.

My friend sent her kids to a non selective prep school and her DD finished year 6 only slightly better than mine academically speaking. Not much to show for £10k pa for each kid, you might say. However, her kids had access to smaller class size and a wide range of after school activities. And who is to say if her DD went to my state primary that she would still have finished ahead of my DS.

I am not saying that you should take the offer. I'm just saying don't dismiss the private school simply because its not a top 100 indie.

Yes outolunchagain , I agree. They were taught to be polite, respectful and thoughtful to each other, their teachers and people in general. There was no bullying and I KNEW that if any had started that they would have stamped it out immediatley. An education is also about how to behave and conduct yourself and be a rounded human being.

I vowed would never send kids to private school.

But having seen the Scottish education system close in so called nice area with good reputation, I would give my right arm to send them private. The opportunities would be chalk and cheese.

Perhaps go and visit the schools and see what you think before deciding? Get a feel for the schools. Thats what we did.

From what I've seen 'higher self esteem and more self confidence' is exactly what private schools are set up to give the kids, so I would consider this offer pretty carefully before turning it down. Yes your son could come out of the local state school with an excellent set of grades, but possibly not with the confidence to apply to top universities, get through an Oxbridge interview etc (not saying that's what he'll want to do, but if he did the private preparation would definitely help).

As regards the exam results, I definitely wouldn't conclude rich=academically brainy without looking into it some more. Private schools love bright kids as they spend a lot of time trying to hustle Tim Nice But Dim through an appropriate clutch of qualifications!

To compare the extra-curricular offer, make a list of everything a child could possibly want to take part in and compare what you'd pay out yourself (and the amount of driving you'd do) to provide it at a state school, and what would be included at the private. You will undoubtedly find there's a lot more on offer at the private school and that it is provided within school hours/led by staff. Unfortunately there's a reason why so many top sports people, artists, musicians and actors were privately educated.

Stripey

A lot of people here use our good rural primary until, 9 or 11 and private after that.

DF moved all her DCs at the same time when her work and sports mad DSs made the hours and clubs at the private school look plausible next to child care and taxiing her DS's round the district.

There is a lot to be said for local friends and being part of village life at primary age. You can get on a bus at 13, but not at 7.

There is even more to be said for having money in the bank at 21.

How you sell that to grandparents who may feel private school is the be all and end all of a perfect up bringing I don't know

MadSleighLady

Yes -that about sums it up... and so I thought I'd add to the mix by asking you lot :)

I only joined today too... I hope you're all very knowledgable and sensible :)