Or is DP? Gah! Marriage proposal stalemate...

[Namechange1812]

Since having the DCs I've changed my mind and decided that actually I do want to get married to my DP. He's never been interested in marriage (MIL poisoned him from an early age but it was alright for her to remarry last year ) but agreed with my reasons for wanting to. So I asked if that meant we were getting married then? He got all huffy and said if he said yes to that question then that would ruin his chance of proposing to me! So I said ok and left it at that. Another time during an argument about it he shouted "fine we'll get married if that's what you want!", i replied i didn't want to if that was his proposal, but he told me it was my fault for pushing the issue! I'd like a nice proposal as I don't want to force him to marry me; it has to come from him. But I don't want to wait forever for it.

So now we're in this situation where I can't bring it up or I'll ruin it ( what??) but if I don't mention it will it ever happen? I first brought up the marriage thing about 18 months ago, and we last discussed it about a month ago, still no proposal! One reason he has given me before for this is he says wants to get me an engagement ring (even though I'm not bothered), but I don't see how that will happen for a long time because we're not exactly flush these days!

I have to add that I've said we don't need to get married as long as we can get something drawn up at the solicitors that will basically do a similar thing regarding the legal stuff; he agreed this was fair.

Who IBU here?

(Actually, sorry, please ignore my 6.52 post, I re-read your OP after writing it and I think you'd come across as COMPLETELY PSYCHO if you followed my advice)

Bubblegum78
"this warrants a proper discussion without tantrums and emotional blackmail/excuses"
"are not inclined to trust a man who does not love you enough to want to be married to you."

We have very different views on what constitutes emotional blackmail.

I think the moment of saying "I do" is more romantic than the proposal. I think you should allow him Christmas and NYE as possible occasions for him to do it, plus any significant dates coming up. Then ask him yourself.

Alternatively the fact he wants to get you a ring makes it sound as though he has come around to the idea and wants to do it "properly". You could give him some time to save up. Is there any rush at this point?

OP, from your first post it sounds like you had both agreed you did want to get married and that you now changed your mind.

If so yabu. You changed the goal posts, a proposal is never going to be 'his decision'. His choice is to NOT get married. He has agrees it because you want it.

You either have to ask him or wait for him to. Even if you do wait for him, you will know deep down that he is doing because you want him to, nit because he does.

Brady I do think that might not be the case, if he comes to it himself. For myself, I was adamant I was never getting married. Dh wanted to, but not enough to split up - he'd always known how I felt. Eventually, when no-one else expected us to marry, I started thinking I wanted to - and this wish grew and finally I proposed, (almost) certain of a positive answer, which I got. The wedding day was fantastic (I thought I'd hate it) and married life is great thus far. Just saying, minds can change!

I think YABU a bit, give the guy a chance to surprise you!

Give yourself six months of not mentioning it or anything to do w

(whoops) ...with it, just try your best to forget about it and enjoy life - if nothing happens in that time then consider another chat.

Hmm. My SIL was in this position with her (now ex) boyfriend. He wouldn't let her propose, as he wanted to do it, but then he wouldn't do it.

After 10 years, she left him and is now happily married to a normal man.

Fwiw my proposal was an ever so romantic - 'Oh shit you're pregnant, I suppose we better get married then' (it was a shock I had just come out of surgery and the doctor told us) and we have been married nearly 12 years now and now laugh about how shit it was. If it was all hearts and flowers it just wouldn't have been him.

Maybe he thinks he can't live up to your expectations of a full on romantic proposal, maybe he feels pressured into it, who knows. I think you should just ask him if he fancies going and setting a date rather than do the whole engagement thing.

Marriage is a contract. Forget the romantic twaddle as it's obviously not going to work in your case! Just work out what the basics are you need to do and the cost, and talk to him about it. It's not fair to your DC not to do it -- there can be all sorts of problems later on down the line. If he adores the DC, you might like to show him the statistics on how much longer relationships last on average when the parents are married, as opposed to co-habiting.

Totally agree with Phiney. I never understand couples who are trying to guess what's going on in the other's mind about whether they're going to propose / get married or not. For heaven's sake, if you're in a mature relationship you should know each other well enough to forget any gameplaying or romantic hang-ups and just get on with it. You've already had kids - all this 'don't want him to unless he wants to and he has to show that he wants to by x, y, z' is so irrelevant now. You have made a major commitment already. Getting married is not a big deal. Just talk to each other like adults and get it sorted. And I agree with you about the engagement ring. That's just daft at this stage. Get on with it - and stay calm!

DH and I both thought a "proposal" was a slightly odd thing. We'd been together for years and we just discussed getting married and made the arrangements the same as we do any other important thing we do as a couple. I think you're over romanticising - and if that leaves you in a place you don't want to be, what's the point?

Wait until 2nd Jan and then worry about it, just in case he is planning on proposing on NYE or even NY day or something. When is your birthday?

I can empathise OP. I have been waiting for a proposal for 3 years. When i met DP he said he wanted marriage in the future etc. Whenever i skated around the subject he would get annoyed and say he was planning something and i would ruin it. So i continued waiting. My clock was ticking so at 35 we started trying for a baby, with me saying i wanted to be married before the baby arrived.

He left all these hints; a romantic hotel open on the laptop when queried got an enigmatic 'oh we'll see, it looks like the kind of place you ask someone something special'. He took me on the most romantic holiday and a special restaurant, hinting (or so i thought) he would ask. He didn't.

I fell pregnant, no proposal. Had the most traumatic birth, still no proposal. I asked him wtf was happening and he said he didn't want to get married now. I was gutted, felt really lead on.

I know it has nothing to do with loving me. He just doesn't want marriage. but i do - especially as i have given up work now and everything is in his name.

Anyway, his company are moving us to the US and we have to be married for the visa. so we are getting married in Jan. there was no proposal. he said matter of factly '...so the company say we need to be married, so will you book something...' with his back to me while he was on the computer. oh be still my beating heart!

If this hadn't had happened tho i would have insisted or left i think. I would abandon the romantic proposal if i were you. If he doesn't want to and the ball is in his court, it is unlikely he'll get round to it (i'm sure my DP was alway intending to). I would just say you want to get married and you are not going to wait for the carrot of a proposal which is being dangled in front of you.

Good Luck

Me and my dh decided to get married during a discussion in bed and he said he was relived he didn't have to do a big proposal. We'd been on a hike that day and got really lost and got really thirsty as dh had poured away the water as it was too heavy , so when people asked we just sort of said it was after a hike when we got lost.

Oh DH and I have a fake proposal story too - I bet it's not that unusual to just discuss it in bed!

If he's unenthusiastic about the whole idea of marriage, I'm afraid the 'you're ruining my chance to propose' thing is probably just an excuse or tactic to avoid discussing it. You never know, but it sounds a bit unlikely that he's never wanted to get married yet has his heart set on a 'proper' proposal with a ring etc.

I agree with others that there's really no need for a formal proposal, for us it was just a chat while we were cooking lunch one Sunday! But you might have to accept that he doesn't want to get married, however much you want him to want to, and the best possible outcome here is that he agrees to go along with it because it's important to you.

I do understand the difficulty, and it's a bit harsh for people to say 'you should have got it sorted before having kids/moving in' because your feelings have changed since then. But on the other hand, to be fair to him, it sounds like he has been clear from the start that he didn't want to marry. He shouldn't be stringing you along with hints about proposals and rings if that's not what he intends to do though. You really need to sit down and talk about it properly.

I think YABU.

Figuring out that you want the same things, have the same values, and want to commit to each other for the rest of your lives is something you do before you have children. I'm not meaning to be harsh, but now that you've had children you're a bit stuck. You don't have the bargaining tool of leaving the relationship - normally when a man doesn't want to marry you/keeps putting it off, you dump him.

This man told you he didn't want to get married, you said you were happy to not get married. And now you have had the children. So I think it is a bit unfair to turn to him this late in the game and say, "I want to married, and I want you to want to be married." Because that's not what he signed up for.

I think you should be honest and say you regret not getting married, and you would like to be. But I don't think you should be surprised if he doesn't marry you, and if he does I don't think you should expect a big show about it.

OP, what do you think you are going to get out of marriage?

If it's the legal protection side of things, then it doesn't matter who proposes and how big the diamond is and what colour dresses the bridesmaids will wear, sit him down, have a rational adult discussion about your reasons for wanting it to happen, and why you prefer not to fart around, and then get on with it.

If you want it because it's romantic or whatever, then there's no urgency so you can wait for him to propose.

I don't understand the 'big proposal' thing - DH and I went out to dinner, got pissed, were talking about life and stuff and he said 'we should get married' and 'i said, yes we should' then the next day he said 'shall we tell people we've decided to get married?' and 'do you want a ring?' and we told people and went ring shopping together....

If you've discussed it and he broadly agrees that you should get married then i think you just need to sit down and say that you don't want a proposal and you want to buy the ring together and shall you go and do that now and book the registry office?, or would he just prefer if you went to a solicitors and sorted out wills, next of kin, assets, house ownership etc. like that and forget the idea of marriage?

I don't think the proposal on his initiative is going to happen i'm afraid.

There's some really good responses here, and it's given me a lot to think about. I now realise IWBU for wanting a big romantic proposal and I have been over-romanticising it. I should be happy that he's agreed to it at all. Apart from the fact it's not really his thing AT ALL (Kiwi you're right he'd find it really cringe, so would I actually!), it is a bit stupid of me to expect that from him and I'm actually feeling quite bad now that he's probably feeling under pressure and should be pissed off with me for "expecting" it.

This whole thing has got me thinking though - how many people actually get a formal proposal at all? it sounds to me like most of you came to the decision together quite informally. Who knew!!!

I'm in two minds whether to give him the benefit of the doubt and see if anything happens over the holidays (though now I realise a proposal from him isn't actually a proposal from him anyway too stupid to see before ) or whether to just plough ahead with the chat once I've found out about all the legal stuff.

Can anyone outline where we and the DC's stand legally now should anything happen? And how that would change if we got married? And what we can and can't do to protect ourselves legally if marriage doesn't happen? Or point me in the direction of where I can find out? This info would be v good to present to him when i bring it up again for the last time. (We're living in Scotland if that makes a difference.)

Oh and I really don't think he'd say no if I asked him, but if he did, that is OK! Really! It's not a deal breaker. We'd just get the legal stuff done instead; that is my primary reason for wanting to be married.

If I were you, I would book an appt at a family solicitor's and get them to draw up legal protection for you as things stand now. Don't push for a marriage that your dp isn't fully in favour of - it's not worth anything (in a romantic sense) if you had to push him into it. It only has value if he wants to marry you too.

Tell your dp that legal protection is important for your security (and his) and that of the dc. A man who loves you will want to safeguard you. Tell him that you are not going to push for marriage, if he decides he wants it in the future, then you will consider his proposal but working on the situation as it is, you want wills and whatever else the solicitor advises.

I think it is perfectly reasonable to change your mind, post dc. No one knows how they are going to feel for the rest of their lives - circumstances and people change. If he doesn't feel in favour of marriage, then he owes it to you to give you full legal protection - you are not a casual gf, you are the mother of his children and the person he supposedly loves.

Before going to the solicitor, decide as a couple how you want assets divided in the case of a split or how you want inheritance to be sorted. You don't want to be sitting in the office and then discover you don't want the same things.

I think the discussion will be very good for you both in terms of acting like a coherent unit, rather than 2 people wanting different things.

Would you stay with him if he never married you? If you would then why not just leave it and perhaps he will propose one day.
If its a big issue - then give him an ultimatum - say 'OK, you want to propose, so I won't mention it again - but you have to propose within the next 12 months or we have a BIG problem'
He then has a whole 12 months to 'surprise' you with a proposal.

You could have a chat and suggest to him that he is evading the issue - and you think you should talk about what he REALLY wants.

I can't imagine a worse start to a marriage than for one partner to persuade the other to do it if they are not 100% willing and keen. It is just storing up disagreements and disputes for the future.
"Well I never wanted to do it anyway, I only agreed to stop your moaning" etc etc.

I have some experience with this, and I really feel for you as it's a bloody frustrating place to be! My DH has been married before and was pretty sure he didn't want to again. I too wasn't bothered about marriage (parents having divorced after 20 odd years of it) but that was until I fell in love with a divorced man... Not proud but felt threatened by ghost of ex yada yada and basically couldn't accept him not taking that step with me. Anyway, that parts different to your situation.

Then we had a conversation one day (after some relationship counselling incidentally) and he said, well we better go and look at engagement rings this weekend then. Wow! But it wasn't a 'proposal' in the usual sense of the word. And so started a stand off where he bought a ring and I knew he was going to propose, but not when. But we were kind of engaged. As are you, if you've had a conversation where getting married has been agreed.

I remember many tearful arguments about this stalemate and luckily he finally proposed on holiday three months later - when we'd already booked the venue, bought the dress and told my mum! (She was paying for said dress and the whole wedding was organised for less than 4 months later).

I think you either need to forget anything has been agreed, and wait for that 'proposal' (but be prepared to accept it not coming?) or have a conversation with your dp about how he feels about marriage - not when he's going to propose.

For us, despite dh's misgivings about having a wedding (he eloped first time round) we both had an amazing day, didn't spend a fortune, and are very happily married now :)

Good luck