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Original poster

to notice that the killings in the USA

380 replies

butisthismyname · 14/12/2012 21:28

Are HUGE NEWS, but the children who are being shot and killed every day in syria, the children who live on the streets and die every day in south america and the children who are dying in third world countries are 'part of the furniture'? I know what has just happened is horrific and sad and awful, but it's just so fucking unfair. It's like the twin towers - OMG the USA is in trouble, lets be outraged ( not negating that but just an example) When will we be as understanding and sympathetic and make what is happening everywhere else in the world as important and newsworthy as this?

OP posts:
KitchenandJumble · 15/12/2012 17:20

OP, I just wanted to say first of all that I think your apology was very gracious.

As for some of the rest of this thread, I can't understand how people can be so callous. What happened in Newtown was a terrible tragedy. It doesn't negate other tragedies to say, as Obama did, that our hearts are broken. Twenty young children were killed in their school, which should have been a place of safety. Why is it unacceptable to feel sorrow at such a horrendous loss?

I'm American and I disagree with much of my country's foreign and domestic policy. But the sneering, utterly predictable anti-American sentiment expressed by some on this thread is really about as low as you can sink. I can guarantee that none of those children were responsible for US government policy.

garlicbaubles · 15/12/2012 17:21

Those are fascinating articles, Grrr. I hadn't thought of this so clearly. Thank you for linking.

flippinada · 15/12/2012 17:24

Kitchen, some people are just arseholes.

garlicbaubles · 15/12/2012 17:25

In one year, handguns murdered
17 people in Finland
35 in Australia
39 in England and Wales
60 in Spain
194 in Germany
200 in Canada
9,484 in the United States.

www.bradycampaign.org/facts/

LadyBeagleBaublesandBells · 15/12/2012 17:27

I agree Kitchen.
There is a lot of America bashing on MN.
And we in the UK have had our fair share of mass shootings, in spite of the fact that our gun laws are amongst the strictest in the world.
This story brings back memories of Dunblane, carried out by a man who was legally allowed to carry firearms.

cocoachannel · 15/12/2012 17:58

OP, you are very gracious to come back and make your further comments.

I will admit to having been more upset by this attack than the all too regular reports of deaths in Syria. This feels closer to home because we have such strong links to the States (like many MNers I have American family and friends). Those children will have gone into school yesterday morning full of excitement before Christmas, will have been due to being doing similar activities to our DCs, would have been wearing similar clothes, been singing the same songs.

Of course no child's life is worth more than another's, but the shock of this event and the ease with which I can picture those classrooms makes it all too close to home.

GreenEggsAndNichts · 15/12/2012 18:48

The quote thecatinthehairnet is using re: the misfortune of being born in the USA was to illustrate what a previous poster sounded like when she said "it was a tragedy BUT it was due to gun laws" etc. It was not a serious comment. However, the people flailing about it have just found it and have run with it. Please read the entire thread. thanks.

GreenEggsAndNichts · 15/12/2012 18:53

I'll also repeat for those not reading the thread: the OP has come back and apologised, she'd had a couple of drinks and had an emotional response to the news. Which I can relate to. Though I think I'm due a couple of drinks!

flippinada · 15/12/2012 19:57

I have read the thread, thank you. Did you mean to sound so rude GreenEggs?

LadyBeagleBaublesandBells · 15/12/2012 20:01

Jeez Garlic, I honestly didn't know.
These figures are shocking.

GothAnneGeddes · 15/12/2012 20:04

Lady: 1 mass shooting in the UK since Dunblane.

Over 60 mass shootings in the US since Columbine.

Not sure how you can talk about the UK having had their fair share really.

SantasBigBaubles · 15/12/2012 20:26

i really don't want to make it appear i am anti gun control. i'm not but i do feel people are being misleading here. first america is significantly larger than the uk. we will have more murders. yes we have more murders by gun as guns are legal, if they weren't legal people would still be murded as in the uk only by knife etc. americans arent some scary evil entitity. goth, you can not buy back the weapons from someone who created an armoury in his basement. that person wants their gun and believes that they have the right to bear arms AGAINST their government. thats why that ruleis there. People arent interests in selling their guns to the government.

Pantofino · 15/12/2012 20:26

Children die every single day, in all sorts of horrible and totally preventable/avoidable ways. We tend to identify with the ones who are "like us" - primary school kids being killed, houses burning down, fathers killing their children - we get outraged because these are tragedies that could happen to us. We don't live in a war zonem or have children dying from Malaria/HIV etc - it is impossible to imagine what that is like. So we appear more sympathetic to situations we can relate to.

It does not mean we can not/do not care about these other situations, but it is normal to focus on "home" so to speak. It is human nature.

monsterchild · 15/12/2012 20:27

But what about when you look at these as percentages of population as homicides?

When you do this, the numbers are quite different, in fact the US compares to Austria in homicides involving firearms. ok, it's Wikipedia, but still

GreenEggsAndNichts · 15/12/2012 20:31

Alright, flipp. If my statement was read combined with the statements before mine, I'd have thought it would have been clear I wasn't actually suggesting people in America deserve to be shot because of where they were born. Hmm If that was what you took away from it, then I apologise.

Rude? okay.

SantasBigBaubles · 15/12/2012 20:32

i honestly believe if the government tried to take away thw guns from the people that there would be a civil war or that civilians would take up arms against the government. please dont also forget that we live in a democracy and it would never be voted for anti gun politicans would never be elected

SantasBigBaubles · 15/12/2012 20:39

the intentional homicide rate is 4.2 per 100,000 in the states and 1.2 in the uk. a difference but not one you notice living in both countries. the real difference i think is that most of those in the states were probably gun crime in america.

flippinada · 15/12/2012 20:50

GreenEggs

I didn't mean that. I simply thought you were being rude in the rather terse way you instructed people to read the thread, and thought the comment was aimed at me.

However, I appreciate you may have been speaking from a point of frustration, which I totally understand - tone doesn't always come across in posts.

flippinada · 15/12/2012 20:59

"i honestly believe if the government tried to take away thw guns from the people that there would be a civil war or that civilians would take up arms against the government"

Well, of course. Because your average gun owning American is trained in armed combat and could see off the American Military...

SantasBigBaubles · 15/12/2012 21:03

the ones that keep thw 500 guns in the basement are. im sorry you are ignorantt about american militias, but continue to act as though you have a tiny clue about what you are talking about if it makes you feel better.
the average american gun owner will never vote for a president who would take away their guns btw.

thebody · 15/12/2012 21:11

Garlic what a shocking statistic...

I don't wish to comment in American foreign policy or any foreign policy.

The cold blooded killing of anyone let alone a child is awful beyond belief in any country of any creed or race.

One reporter described how parents had heard of the tragedy but didn't know if their child was dead or not.. Don't want to hijack but that exact situation happened to us and other British parents in feb.

Truly awful and think some posters really need to stop and try and imagine how that feels..

Poor parents, poor teacher, poor community and above all poor little children killed.

flippinada · 15/12/2012 21:13

Of course Santas, what am I saying...that sounds great and obviously it's worked out really well so far. I also apologise totally for not thinking that people who stockpile caches of semi automatic weapons are an all round great bunch of guys who just love freedom but as you point out, what do I know?

As an aside, the weapons used by the perpetrator were legally owned - not by him, but by his mother.

What would he have done if he didn't have access to those weapons, I wonder.

GreenEggsAndNichts · 15/12/2012 21:14

flipp You're right. Abruptly telling people to read a thread really isn't my usual style, and I'm finding bits of the thread frustrating. I promise I'm not deliberately trying to antagonise, though, and was only trying to clarify my original statements. :(

Orwellian · 15/12/2012 21:15

Yes, these damn American kids. How selfish of them to get killed and take the spotlight away from all the other kids in the world who are dying.

Seriously, this thread is disgusting and so typical of the bigoted hatred against Americans that would be vehemently frowned upon if it was aimed at Muslims or blacks. Hypocrites!

MiniTheMinx · 15/12/2012 21:15

Santa would you mind explaining in more detail about American Militias?

Would there really be a civil war or would people just hand in the guns they were licensed to have/registered and criminals would of course as always have a hidden stash of weapons.? Surely it would only be the criminal element within society that would refuse and that refusal would be partly masked by the fact that they have guns that are hidden/unlicensed.