To not want to circumcise my son?

[SkiBunnnnny]

I have a 10 day old baby son. Being from the UK it would never normally cross my mind to have him circumcised. However, I am living in Canada where the practice is more common (but not as common as in the US) but on the decline.

DH wants to have him circumcised as he is half Jewish (so DS is 1/4 Jewish) but I feel like I don't want to put DS through an unnecessary medical procedure for purely cosmetic reasons. DH also thinks it is cleaner but I think this is irrelevant in the 21st century when we have indoor plumbing and can easily wash ourselves every day. I also feel that it is not our body to make a decision like that about, if he wants to get himself circumcised in the future he can but he can not get himself "de-circumcised" if he is unhappy about it in the future (DH doesn't believe that any circumcised men wish that they weren't).

My question is: AIBU to force my opinion or is DH opinion more valid since he is male?

Monkeynuts, there is actually a whole community of Jewish men angry with their parents for mutilating them so it not correct to say no Jewish man would thank their mother for NOT having them circumcised. www.jewsagainstcircumcision.org/

SGF - you have not even read what people have said on here about circumcision. Your implication is that all Jewish people are child abusers. Are you happy with calling people that? In actual fact why don't you call social services in North London, where probably 40% of males are circumcised?

You also state people who have faith are not moronic imbeciles with imaginary friends. Is that also fair? What have they done to you?

It is absolutely not your place to call people child abusers and I will report this thread to MNHQ for the implications you have made about people.

YANBU. Your husband's fractional-Jewish whimsy sounds a lot like the one-eighth Irish Americans who make a big song and dance about St Patrick's Day. Except that one involves drinking Guinness and singing Pogues songs, the other involves genital mutilation.

I keep my gentlemanly appendage clean by daily showering, as I'd hope any man would whether he's circumcised or not.

Oh and Abraham, the prophet who launched the War on Foreskins, was the same one who was happy to sacrifice his son on an altar until God stopped him at the last moment with "I was joking, you sick fuck." Not a good role model.

Oh, and I gather that it seriously decreases sensual pleasure in later life. Why would anyone do that to someone who can't consent?

Last word: imagine if it wasn't part of any established culture, and some new religious cult started demanding that parents did it.

Another one here who considers it tantamount to abuse. You are mutilating your child, who is too young to be able to stop you. I am surprised it is still lega tbh.

FWIW, my DH was circumcised and has always wished he hadn't been. The top of his penis has become desensitised from being exposed (inside his pants, obv) so he has always felt that he's missing out sexually. I can actually scratch the top with a nail and he barely feels it.

Well, clearly YANBU to want to avoid ritual genital mutilation of your defenceless newborn.
If he wants his son to "match him", he can buy the same colour shirt. What a stupid argument for chopping body parts off a baby.

Tbh, if somebody genuinely believes it's ok to mutilate the genitals of a baby - in the name of religion, culture, matching uncles, whatever - then I don't know how any kind of sane, rational argument against it would even work.

YANBU Please don't do it, you will feel awful when he's trying to recover from a very painful procedure, that you know is entirely unnecessary.

And definitely what YouBloodyWolf said.

peaceandlovebunny - what on earth do informed choices to have your own ears pierced or to get a tattoo have to do with inflicting unnecessary pain on an infant who cannot make his own choice?
barbaric practices. anyone who has chosen them for themselves has no right to condemn someone who chooses another 'barbaric practice' for their child. mothers often pierce their daughters' ears. it hurts, its unnecessary and its commonplace.

Of course it's easy to judge when you have the luxury of the issue being black and white. But it is not black and white. If you are Jewish and you have a son the issue is very complex and there are a number of factors to consider carefully. It is wrong to say a boy can be Jewish if not circumcised. It is also wrong to say the boy can be part of the Jewish community if not circumcised. It is wrong to say that you are cutting anything off the child. It is wrong to say it causes great pain or is traumatic. However, no mother goes blindly ahead with the procedure without considering it carefully. Your comments all show that you just don't understand this. I find the majority of your responses immature and facile. It may be that in our position you would choose not to have your son circumcised but what is more likely is that you don't understand what our position is.

bessie what if a child born to Jewish parents decides that he doesn't want to be Jewish or belong to the Jewish community? Surely that is his right as a human being. Does he get his foreskin back? Of course he can't.
This is the problem that I have with circumcision for religious/ cultural reasons. I am someone who doesn't follow the religion that my parents did [christianity] and I would be pretty angry if they had inflicted permanent physical changes on me, because they presumed that I would automatically be christian because they were.

I think the anti-circ movement among the Jewish community would disagree with you on that.

It's very black and white. You amputate a part of your childs body, or you don't. Wrong and right. Whatever excuse you use is meaningless.

The thing is, and what actually convinced me in the end, is that if the boy is circumcised he can choose whether he wants to identify with his Judaism or not. If he is not circumcised, he can't. My dh and I were very close to my grandfather, who went through the holocaust, lost all his family in it, and suffered enormously for the fact of his cultural heritage. We didn't want to deny our son his cultural heritage or our religion and our ds not being circumcised would have done that. Again, nothing has been cut off. It is still there but rolled back.

It is not black and white and I am not going to keep addressing that part your argument. If you are unable to see the nuances that is your intellectual problem

My son was circumcised for medical reasons when he was ten. The immediate aftermath of the op and the whole recovery process was extremely traumatic for him, and that was with a GA, so there is no way I would put a child though that unnecessarily and without a proper anaesthetic.

And I absolutely do not buy the argument that it is somehow easier or less painful if it is performed on a newborn baby.

People just like to think that because the poor child cannot verbalize their pain.

Probably half or more of the outraged folk here would have their sons circumsized if the lived in the US. We are mostly all going with what we are used to and raised with. Yes, argue against it as it is unnecessary etc but the language and emotion being used here which is a widely practised and often non religious proceedure is verging on hysterical.

Would you do this to a baby girl, just because it ws part of your partner's religion? I'm guessing NO.

If your DS would like it done when he's an adult, then that's his choice. I really do not see the need for this barbaric procedure.

Begoniathat is true to an extent. However the rate is dropping in the States [down to 55%], hence it will most likely become the norm to be uncircumcised in the states also.-

Bessie123 interested in your responses as I went out for dinner last night with a newly pregnant Jewish friend & her non- Jewish husband. Talking about circ he is strongly anti but they want to raise a son in the community & cultural identity (not religious believers). None of us really knew what a ritual circ involved, is it always just cutting the frenulum or is that a variation?

I find it very strange that the jewish community would even know if a man had been circumcised. Is there some sort of penis check before you are allowed to take part in community events?

Bessie I'm sorry but your last post is utter bollocks. Your son wouldn't have been able to choose to identify with his Jewish heritage if you hadn't had him circumcised? That is utterly ridiculous.

So,by your logic, girls from cultures where female circumcision is practiced are also left unable to identify with their heritage if they don't undergo the procedure?

Begonia I don't think more than half of the people here saying the disagree with it would have it done to their sons if they lived in America. That's like saying we would all own guns if we were American

But you might own guns if you had been brought up in the US, especially certain areas. Or do you think that your upbringing and the culture and norms you are surrounded with have mothing to do with how you form your views. We really don't know how we would act.

Morning everyone,

We'd just like to remind you of our talk guidelines, and say that the purpose of Mumsnet is to make parent's lives easier, and offer moral support.

You didn't answer my question Bessie, how do you feel about the 'tradition' of female circumcision? If that was your culture would you do that to your daughter?

Begonia - lots of Americans don't own guns,vehemently disagree with guns being held by private persons actually. With good reason as we can all see in the news sadly.

Yes our culture shapes us,as does our upbringing but so does our own independent thought and freewill.

Outdated cultural practices are just that...outdated. They should be consigned to the past.

Is everyone who is in favour of male circumcision okay with female circumcision? Because to be in favour of one,you must be in favour of the other...both are done for cultural reasons,amongst others.