in thinking perhaps the school ought not to keep fobbing me off?

[THERhubarb]

dd is quiet. She doesn't follow trends, she doesn't watch X Factor or like Justin Bieber. She doesn't wear make-up or style her hair or wear designer clothing. She's a bit different. This makes her a target at school.

I'm not talking outright bullying here, but dd is in Year 8 and ever since Year 7 she's had problems with girls ignoring her, moving away from her and now talking behind her back.

Last week she was on a residential with school. Later I found a note in her book in which she wrote about how worried she was to be sharing a dorm with these girls. She listed their names and put next to each one how much she thought they hated her. Nearly all hated her it seems.

I had a word and she has only 2 friends who talk to her but even they will leave her out at times. They go to the cinema and don't invite her and if they are sat next to their friends, no-one will talk to dd. It's making her quite unhappy. These are the girls in her form group but also no-one in her classes talks to her either.

Now I'm aware that some of this is down to her self esteem too so I've made an appointment to see her form tutor to discuss what we can do. I'm not hopeful as I've brought this up before (Year 7) and her tutor was quite dismissive. So I sent an email to her Head of Year just to say that I was going in to see the tutor and why. This was Wed. He replied today and basically made me feel like an over-protective mum. His email was very dismissive.

I've just replied saying that I could either ignore my child's obvious unhappiness or I could work with the school to try to address it.

I'm really annoyed by his tone and the whole dismissive attitude. I'm not saying that they should take action. No-one can force these girls to like dd. I'm asking what resources they have to help. I'm sorry I'm taking up their valuable fecking time, but surely this is what they are there for?

Thoughts appreciated.

YANBU. It's important for your DD that she knows you are on her side, and the school are much more likely to address it if they think you will make a PITA of yourself if they don't. He who shouts loudest gets heard, unfortunately. Obviously don't make a massive ongoing thing, but I think demanding a meeting with HoY of form tutor is ok.

FWIW I was like your daughter, and suddenly during second year (year 8?) I found a group of friends and we stuck together like glue, adopted most of the 'losers' and by the 5th/6th form we were definitely the cool indie kids (it helped that the slightly grungy/alternative look was suddenly in for some reason). It was an experience that really made me confident in who I am, much more so than getting in with the cool kids in first year would have. All is not lost

What does she like doing? Is she involved in anything at school?

That's the trouble, I don't want to come across as the paranoid parent and make a nuisance of myself (which is why I started this thread, just to make sure I wasn't coming across that way). I even put in my email to her HoY (which was very friendly and informal) that I just didn't like to see her unhappy and if only we could pass on the lessons we learned at school to our own children. His reply was merely that primary school relations tend to fizzle out during Year 8, that this was no big deal and he was surprised she hadn't mentioned her concerns to any teacher.

My reply was much more formal, I stiffly responded that in all of her reports the word "quiet" stands out. I didn't even know how unhappy she was until I found the note. dd doesn't like making a fuss either and I'm damned if they will ignore her too.

The lessons I have learnt from school and in life is that cold hard reason often works best and so adopting a Jeremy Paxman style of tone with this useless HoY may be my only defence.

I really had hoped Hopefully that Year 8 would signal a change for her. That she would make friends in her classes, join a few clubs etc. But that hasn't happened and I can't really sit back and do nothing whilst she's miserable can I? Yet that appears to be what they'd rather I did.

RedHelenB I have looked at the clubs the school have going. There are a couple I will talk to her about in the appt to see if we can't encourage her to join but only one is a lunchtime club and the other is after school. I was hoping for more lunchtime clubs as that would solve the problem of her sitting on her own during lunchtime (she sits outside in all weathers, cold or rain, because they are all sat inside and they ignore her).

She is quiet/shy and so won't put herself forward for anything.

This is why I want to talk to her form tutor and HoY so that she can be encouraged to get involved. If left to her own devices she just disappears into the woodwork and no-one notices she is there.

Your post made me feel very sad, my Dc are still little so i have no real advise but I do feel it's beneficial to all children to have an interest out of school where they can make friends they can enjoy with out the pressure of school life. I already encorouge this in mine and make the effort to maintain out of school friendships, can be hard to fit it in but i feel its really crucial.

Would your dd will willing to do that, art/craft classes, sports, something like scouts that are not girl inclusive perhaps? I wasn't sporty but I loved trampolining and horse riding as a child, hated team sports as the bithcy girls seems to like those.

It would boost her confidence if she knows she has friends elsewhere.
I think it's great she doesn't follow the crowd, good for her!
I hope it gets better for her.

Rhubabrb - dont hold back. You know there is something wrong here and you know your DD.

Had something similar with DS1 last year. Went to see HOY and kicked up a fuss, made sure DS1 got into clubs and made sure HOY knew he had to keep an eye on DS1. It worked.

You dont have to start shouting and ranting but a well thought out email (which you keep) setting out the issues and requesting a meeting and then a follow up email (which you keep) listing agreed actions does the trick I find.

"she just disappears into the woodwork and no-one notices she is there."

Yes been there on this one. DS1 never pushes himself forward but is very bright and very able and very personable but socially awkward and desperate to be popular with the 'sporty boys'. He won't go to clubs unless either a) we make him go or b) sport boys give their approval.

Nice thing he is going to school drama club and school science club now which means he has a wider mix of friends (both boys and girls) as well as sports.

Well I see her form tutor on Tues and my last email to HoY basically stated that I would let him know if I needed his useless input.

If the meeting doesn't come to anything I shall get in touch with him again, this time face to face and wearing my best scowl with knuckle dusters.

dd did used to go to Guides, but the girls were again quite cliquey and so she stopped going.
She has so much homework that it's difficult to find time for an after school club but I will have a good think on this score. She isn't very sporty at all and will often just fade into the background in team activities so Guides didn't suit her. I wish the school had a book club as this would be just right for her, but sadly they don't and dd certainly wouldn't have the confidence to start one!

I wonder if I could set up a book club for teenagers? I mean, what would it entail exactly? A few ads? We could start off with a meeting in our house and they could take it in turn meeting in each other's houses discussing the books they've read. Would that take off do you think? Or are teens just not that arsed to sit around discussing books?

Children can be pack animals, it's fine to walk your own path and nothing wrong with not conforming, but the flip side is peer indifference and at worst, active dislike and distrust. "Hate" is too strong, try and get that idea out of her head, it only escalates tension.

Your DD may not fit in but if she is becoming isolated,help her be a bit canny.

She will boost her chances of getting along with peers if she signs up for something like a sport, (team games), dance, singing.

This sounds superficial and shallow but make sure she keeps up personal hygiene, wears clothes that aren't cutting edge of style obviously but are fresh and not frumpy, and gets a good haircut regularly. I don't mean become a Barbie doll but she can get away with having uncool tastes as long as she presents herself as independent and detached not clingy or aloof.

Fwiw I write as mother of 'lone wolf' nerdy DS who never liked sport so was at a crushing disadvantage throughout school, and DD one of the most popular girls in the school, without I hope being a bitch.

I dont think a book club would work, and might even make her more of a target for her peers thinking she is a bit "different".

Does she have any music interests that you could maybe get a ticket for her and a friend of her choice to go to?

Pack of cards used to go down a treat. Is it a mixed school btw?

I will talk to her about signing up for drama, I think that getting involved in acting would be of enormous benefit. It's how I learnt to come out of my shell, I just acted confident.

YY to hair and clothes. She has no idea when it comes to fashion but they all wear Hollister and hoodies. I do try to buy her things that are trendy but she doesn't wear them, preferring her colourful striped cardis instead. I will make her a hair appt though, again she won't let me tie it up or do anything with it at all.

Hygiene-wise she's better than most.

Music, hmm well Nirvana don't seem to tour anymore, probably because Kurt is dead. She likes a couple of songs but would never go to see a concert and certainly not of a band that her friends might like. I was going to suggest she was that Twilight film but then her friends went to see it without her

Perhaps I should get someone really famous to visit the school, high-five her and pretend they are best mates - that should do it!

I was bullied like this at secondary school. It is bullying and it *is worth making a fuss about. My school report say I'm quiet, i need to make more effort to be sociable with the class... 4 of them outright bullied me, the others were too busy keeping their heads out of trouble!

I wrote it all down in a coursework assignment in year 10 (new tutor and HoY), my parents were called in and we were given a formal apology from the school. By then, I'd developed my own coping strategies - and some nasty self-esteem issues which took well over a decade to resolve.

Fight her corner with school, but also get her involved with something away from school. I'm musical and was in the county and town youth orchestras. I found myself popular there, which countered the misery of school. Having older friends at school helped with my cred, too! But knowing i was likable by my peers, just not that particular group of them, was massively important.

I found that attitudes changed in year 10. 7-9 were all about following the crowd. 10-11 you got respect for independent thought (although this was the 90s so it might just have been my dm boots and Benetton jumper )

Yes mixed school. The boys won't have anything to do with the girls though and are in fact quite badly behaved (stone throwing, spitting, classroom disruption, etc)

YANBU your child is unhappy speak to her form tutor about it, both of my dds were never into fashion or brands and were individuals at school and had a small group of friends it wasnt easy for them especially dd1 who is now nearly 20 she was quiet and a bit timid I worked with the school when she was 14 which seems to be the age this sort of thing is at its height, dont worry about coming across as paranoid or being a bother to the school call them and talk to somebody, your dd deserves to be happy,

and yes at seeing if their is anything she can get involved in outside school dd2 does a drama class and has friends there, DD2 although isn't in the 'in' crowd she is a bit gobbier more extroverted than her sister was

DD2 likes batman and comicbooks and musicals she isn't into hollister jack willis or 1 direction she is frowned at by most of her peers, although there is the 'geeky' group she hangs around with,

I dont think that you can really force her to do things if she feels uncomfortable doing them.

Is she really unhappy or is a lot of this your own concerns for her?

I didnt have many friends at school, most of my mates were people from outside school. I wouldnt have wanted my mum to interfere either.

Not having a go at you, you sound like a very caring mum, but your daughter could see it as you being on her case and being a bit interfering if you go into the school and make a fuss about her.

we had this with dd3 last year. v similar - nothing in particular you could "blame" anyone for but an unhappy child. I went to see the Deputy Head (Pastoral) at dds school - does your school have anyone similar? She was fantastic - really helped. It's a large school and i think dd was just a bit lost - she has now got 3 good friends who are similar to her - they hadn't really come across each other before and still don't realise that there was any behind the scenes engineering - we were very clear that nothing could be done to highlight her unhappiness or embarrass her in any way.

the deputy head still keeps an eye out for her and knows what's going on with class dynamics - which given the size of school is fantastic. And dd3 has no idea of any of this, so neither do any of the other children. I really hope your school can help your daughter too - it's miserable seeing them miserable and not knowing what to do - i feel for you.

Yy PurplePidj is right attitudes do change and DD's musical taste will stand her in good stead.

I know it shouldn't be this hard work, it is like using camouflage to blend in enough not to stick out. You do realise I'm sure your DD won't be the only one? Pupils are rarely all Flavour of the Month. The higher they climb, the harder they fall. Your DD needs a strategy. Yea though she walks in the valley of social death she can get through this, help her identify a strength, play to it.

Having boys around will dilute the girls' antipathy.

Does the school have a library open at break and lunch? That would e a nicer place for her to sit and read than outside on her own.

I agree with MRs wobble when dd1 was going through stuff at school I phoned and spoke to her pupil support and she was fantastic dd never knew we had weekly phone meetings therhubarb your daughter doesnt have to know your worried ,

'Tis me, Rhubarb still, I was told to change into my special traditional Christmas name.

Thanks Jingleallthejay I really did think that she would find similar people in Year 8, friends outside her form group but she hasn't. No geeky group, nothing. I think she might come across as a bit sulky and arrogant because she is a little socially awkward and won't usually speak unless spoken to. I was always thought of as arrogant by a couple of teachers who got me completely wrong.

I have asked if Student Support could help.

Thanks for your replies. It's made me realise that I'm not being paranoid and if I have to, I will take this further.

dd1 always came across as arrogant she wasn't just awkward and introverted she also looks sulky but i have a sulky face too

im in scotland what age is year 8?