in thinking perhaps the school ought not to keep fobbing me off?

[THERhubarb]

dd is quiet. She doesn't follow trends, she doesn't watch X Factor or like Justin Bieber. She doesn't wear make-up or style her hair or wear designer clothing. She's a bit different. This makes her a target at school.

I'm not talking outright bullying here, but dd is in Year 8 and ever since Year 7 she's had problems with girls ignoring her, moving away from her and now talking behind her back.

Last week she was on a residential with school. Later I found a note in her book in which she wrote about how worried she was to be sharing a dorm with these girls. She listed their names and put next to each one how much she thought they hated her. Nearly all hated her it seems.

I had a word and she has only 2 friends who talk to her but even they will leave her out at times. They go to the cinema and don't invite her and if they are sat next to their friends, no-one will talk to dd. It's making her quite unhappy. These are the girls in her form group but also no-one in her classes talks to her either.

Now I'm aware that some of this is down to her self esteem too so I've made an appointment to see her form tutor to discuss what we can do. I'm not hopeful as I've brought this up before (Year 7) and her tutor was quite dismissive. So I sent an email to her Head of Year just to say that I was going in to see the tutor and why. This was Wed. He replied today and basically made me feel like an over-protective mum. His email was very dismissive.

I've just replied saying that I could either ignore my child's obvious unhappiness or I could work with the school to try to address it.

I'm really annoyed by his tone and the whole dismissive attitude. I'm not saying that they should take action. No-one can force these girls to like dd. I'm asking what resources they have to help. I'm sorry I'm taking up their valuable fecking time, but surely this is what they are there for?

Thoughts appreciated.

Thanks all. I just need to know now, do I take dd into the meeting with me? I want to be able to talk freely and not to embarrass her but also dd is the best one to tell us exactly what is going on and how she feels.

What do I do?

Won't it carry more weight with whomever you see if DD goes too and expresses how she'd like things to be and asks for input?

its an arse. you can't make people like someone they don't. if they've decided your daughter is a target, they'll pick on her. she does need not to be bullied. the school should be able to give her a safe place to be at breaks etc but they won't be able to make people like her if they've decided not to. a change of school might help.

one of the things you could do is explain to your dd that people don't actually need friends and encourage her in the things she likes doing. if she doesn't like current 'teenager' music, does she like anything with more credibility? i ask because i went with my daughter, then 13, to see a band of her choice, thinking they would be some pop nonsense, only to find i was at an amazing gig by pulp. she later introduced me to the work of radiohead and various other rather good bands.

My DD started year 7 in September. She wasn't "popular" in primary school and it got even worse at secondary - she was ignored by most of the class and even before the first half term it developed into bullying. I wrote a note to her form tutor, he referred it to the Head of Year and to be fair they did seem on top of it - they called in every girl that she had told me about (but like your DD's list in the book OP) and told every one of them if they didn't behave their parents would be called in - only one, the ringleader, tried to deny it.

Since then things have eased off a bit and although she doesn't have friends within her form (more like acquaintances) she does have some friends in other forms. The HofY said she would be working on some friendship groups with other year 7 girls who were struggling although to date we haven't heard that this actually went ahead. I understand that these problems aren't unusual in year 7/8 - good luck OP and please let us know how you get on, hope your DD is ok.

That's what I thought Donkeys but I don't want to talk about her in front of her either. I also worry that dd won't tell her teacher just how bad it is whereas I can and will feel freer to express myself without worrying about breaking her confidence or embarrassing her.

bunny, she wants friends, that's the problem.

I would advise that perhaps go into the meeting first and set out why you are there and why you are unhappy. Then invite your dd in to say her bit. She may get embarrassed or nervous around the ht.
I had to do this with my dd (she's 5 but I still think its relevant in these cases), I went in, said my bit then suggested hearing what's been going on from her. In fact, I only knew a fraction of what was going on, and when she felt that not one but two people were on her side, she told us the rest of what was going on.

Hi Op

Can I suggest you have a word with who ever does the pastoral care there and see if they have a visiting school counsellor if so get her on the waiting list. If not is there a YMCA in your area? they offer free confidential counselling for ages 13 to 25, if your not sure, pm me your area in confidence and i will check to see for you.

My sons school ran its own self esteem workshops with other students who were in the same boat so to speak, in an effort that if after the classes they could hang with some of the same people it would have been of benefit.

I am going to ask that she get help from Student Support. She doesn't need counselling, she just needs to change her negative thinking and get some confidence and as she spends almost half her time at school, I think that school can make a huge difference here and this is what I want them to do.

Sorry op

i didnt mean she has issues I mean that counselling helps with the negative thinking, it looks at how she see's herself and what she wants, and what barriers there might be in her way. Counselling isnt always about huge stuff, through her talking to an actively listening person she can try out what it feels like to be assertive and heard.

I see it quite a lot, and with clients of that age

When i was in your position i went without my daughter - I wanted to make sure the teacher understood how serious i thought the issue was and didn't want my daugher to know I was worried about her since I was keeping up a cheerful it-will-all-be-ok front with her. i also wanted the teacher to do her own research/observations and understand what my daughter wanted/needed not what I thought she wanted/needed. As I've already said, this worked really well for me and my only regret is I didn't raise it with the school sooner. I really hope you get as good an outcome. best wishes

I still don't know whether to take her now or not! Arguments are equally stacked.

Guilty cheers, I do think Student Support offers this service and I'll make sure I ask about it. The NHS round here has a waiting list that extends to 6 months or more for young peoples counselling.

Okay how about write and date a letter to the school person, in advance of your meeting - no bad thing to have a paper trail although important to see someone face to face. Then take DD with you and if necessary she can step out/go back to class?

Sorry I didn't read all the posts I just have to say it's okay.

I was like your daughter in school I had 1 or 2 friends but the always ignored me outside of school and if someone else came along in class. I will say I did feel down and upset at this during school (and even now I don't have lots of friends) but it has made me the compassionate person I am today. I befriended the odd ones and still do and this makes me me tolerant, less vein and I think a better person. I think it is third that has lead to to wanting to do community social based work.

What I'm saying is she might have a bad time in school (which I don't think can be fixed by speaking to her tutors you can't make people be her friend) but it will make her a better all rounded sweet individual.

In fact everyone I know who has been left out etc are the friendliest loveliest people,ccompared to those who where popular who just come over as bitchy.

Ps I also felt left out by liking pop rock music and hating dance and rnb. I still do but it's okay :-)

She's an individual and that's a brilliant thing to be. Please look at through positives and not the negatives.

Thanks soontobeburns and don't worry, we do celebrate being different here. I constantly fight against her negatives. I tell her how beautiful she is both inside and out, I give constructive criticism on her work and praise her no matter what, I suggest inviting friends round for tea, I suggest sleepovers, I always make time to talk to her and I always take an interest in what she does.

We share lots of things like a love for Doctor Who and the same sense of humour. She likes a lot of my music (Nirvana, The Eels, The Clash, Mumford & Sons, etc). We are very close.

I would never try to force her to fit in. I'm proud she's not like them and I do tell her so

That's nice OP I have the same relationship with my mum. I wasn't saying you don't focus on the positives, just that I know it will hurt her in the moment but she will be a loving adult and it will all work out in the end.
You sound great

Have just sent email to form tutor outlining what was going on, telling her about the note I found and about what I hoped could be done such as Student Support/lunchtime and afterschool activities/addressing the issue of bullying with the class/a befriending scheme. That gives the tutor time to prepare so that when I arrive tomorrow after school, we'll both have an outline and dd can be fully involved without me needing to talk about her as I've put it all in the email.

SirCliff/Rhubarb, I hope you manage to resolve issues with the school for your dd. I just wanted to add that I agree with posters saying to also look further afield for clubs, rather than just school.

I recommend Scouts as an excellent all-inclusive and fun activity based group to belong to (in our area anyway) My dds scout group includes a couple of children who were/are seen as 'different' to their peers at school but seem to fit in nicely with the ethos at scouts. My dd is now very good friends with another girl from scouts (different schools) and the friends mum has told me about her dds troubles at school and how scouts has really helped her confidence, as well as finding new and different pals to hang out with at other non school times.

Also, if you think she'd like a book club, maybe you could try and arrange one at your home (firstly) but advertise it in the local library/shops etc rather than at school. That way it will only attract other teens who are keen to attend and should keep her shielded from what her school peers may think/say about it?

Her taste in music is clearly very cool already... she is way ahead of her peers One day they may catch up with her, but by then she will probably be far too cool to even bother with the pop-puppets who ignored her in yr 8!

Can I recommend out of school Karate too? It was a lifesaver for ds1 when he was going through similar issues. Classes are very structured, and many activities/exercises are done individually, so you are with other people without being socially under pressure. IOE teachers were very hot on positive reinforcement, praising what can be done, rather than criticising what can't, and many nonsporty kids find it a good way into sport . . . .

HTH

As you've all given your time to sharing thoughts and experiences I thought I would let you know how we got on.

I was there for over an hour. It was very apparent to me that my dd was not the same person at school. She hardly made eye contact and her answers were monosyllabic. It was like pulling teeth out. She fiddled with her jumper the whole time. Her tutor said this was her on a chatty day.

It made me realise that if this is now dd is in class then no wonder no-one talks to her! Her tutor actually said that she had noticed the brooch dd wears on her coat but had been afraid to ask dd about it for fear of either not getting a response or putting her on the spot.

So I've asked Student Support to get involved and help with confidence issues.

We've listed some school clubs that she might be interested in. dd was very reluctant as she is scared of joining in with things, but I made it clear that this was not an option for her, she has to deal with this. One of the clubs is a World Cinema club where the kids can go into a warm classroom, eat their lunch and watch a movie. That should be simple enough.

We also agreed that doing some activities would give dd something to talk about and boost her confidence.

I'm going to look into a club that is outside of school too.

dd is a very negative person and sees the negatives in everything before the positives so I might get a book from Amazon that can help us work on that at home.

The tutor will have a word with one of the girls who has been saying unpleasant things behind her back and I will try to get dd to invite a couple of them over.

We made it clear to her that we can only do so much. She has to make an effort too. She needs to change.

Thanks for all your input

Wow, I wish my mum had been like you when I went through something similar! I was told that 'girls can be nasty sometimes' & that I should 'just ignore it'. The result was that everyone continued to ignore me/talk about me behind my back & I felt like I had to pretend everything was ok. It's the kind of experience that toughens you up... Or perhaps, the kind of thing that leaves you convinced that people don't like you even if they claim to & ends up with you battling depression.

Good for you for being so pro-active & noticing when your daughter needs help!

OP whatever you do, don't give up. I don't know what the answer is, I wish I did. All I know is that I was excluded at school like this (later diagnosed with AS) and it was always down played by my teachers and parents. But I still carry the scars of what it did to my spirit today. Some people under estimate the harm this sort of situation does. Keep fighting her corner for her.

Thanks all. I intend to. In fact I'm looking up clubs as we speak