in thinking perhaps the school ought not to keep fobbing me off?

[THERhubarb]

dd is quiet. She doesn't follow trends, she doesn't watch X Factor or like Justin Bieber. She doesn't wear make-up or style her hair or wear designer clothing. She's a bit different. This makes her a target at school.

I'm not talking outright bullying here, but dd is in Year 8 and ever since Year 7 she's had problems with girls ignoring her, moving away from her and now talking behind her back.

Last week she was on a residential with school. Later I found a note in her book in which she wrote about how worried she was to be sharing a dorm with these girls. She listed their names and put next to each one how much she thought they hated her. Nearly all hated her it seems.

I had a word and she has only 2 friends who talk to her but even they will leave her out at times. They go to the cinema and don't invite her and if they are sat next to their friends, no-one will talk to dd. It's making her quite unhappy. These are the girls in her form group but also no-one in her classes talks to her either.

Now I'm aware that some of this is down to her self esteem too so I've made an appointment to see her form tutor to discuss what we can do. I'm not hopeful as I've brought this up before (Year 7) and her tutor was quite dismissive. So I sent an email to her Head of Year just to say that I was going in to see the tutor and why. This was Wed. He replied today and basically made me feel like an over-protective mum. His email was very dismissive.

I've just replied saying that I could either ignore my child's obvious unhappiness or I could work with the school to try to address it.

I'm really annoyed by his tone and the whole dismissive attitude. I'm not saying that they should take action. No-one can force these girls to like dd. I'm asking what resources they have to help. I'm sorry I'm taking up their valuable fecking time, but surely this is what they are there for?

Thoughts appreciated.

squeaky - the note I found said it all.

I have spoken to dd and she is happy for me to see her form tutor. I wouldn't do anything that she didn't want me to do and neither would I force her to join clubs if she didn't want to. All I ask is that she gives it a try, like the Guides, and if it's not for her then she can just drop out.

I doubt very much she would prefer to sit in the cold and rain eating her lunch than doing a lunchtime club. Sometimes she needs a push in the right direction because she hasn't the confidence to do so herself.

She does use the library at times but feels sad to be on her own and so she tries to sit/hang around with the two girls who do talk to her. She doesn't want to be on her own, doing her own thing, she actually wants to have friends and be sociable.

she actually wants to have friends and be sociable.

this has made me well up bless her I hope you manage to speak to her teacher and get something sorted, being a teenager is just shit sometimes ,

Hi I feel for your DD, sadly reminiscent of my own school days and probably that of a lot of women on here. Ultimately not being one of the cool kids is strengthening and character forming but in the midst of it, it's terrible. I would be proud of the fact that my DD wasn't trying to make herself fit in and pretending to be who she's not, that would be worse for her self esteem.

People have mentioned school clubs, I would also be looking for out of school activities where she can meet other people. I had activities outside of school 4 afternoons a week - drama, dancing etc. where everyone was mixed and away from their school cliques so it was much easier to make friends and some of those relationships I formed were long lasting, as well as good for my self esteem.

What about things like Cadets or Duke of Edinburgh schemes? Is that anything that she might be interested in doing?

Or some voluntary work at a local place ie Dogs Home, or Wildlife Rescue place.

It would let her meet others her own age that are not part of a school clique too.

I think your DD is a young version of me.
So many lunchtimes sitting alone reading.
Not in to hair, make up, clothes, boys. Not sporty and too dhy to join clubs. And pretty miserable a lot of the time.
In year 9 i got matey with 2 others pretty similar and we stuck together.
Hope your dd finds her niche.

These things do change - I had no friends in school from reception til year 9, then suddenly in year 9 I became one of the most popular girls in the school out of nowhere - I hadn't changed at all, but my peer group had grown up a bit.

I'm not sure what talking to the teachers can do really, unless she is actually being bullied. Could she try taking up an instrument or something that she can practice at lunch so she doens't feel alone, and if she is into music as I think was mentioned up-thread, could give her another outlet and route to making some friends?

IME, she'll jut have to wait it out until her year group grow some brain cells and realise that she is unique and cool.

I think at that age, you can not do that much as a parent, unless she specifically asks you.

I know everyone is different, and has thier own story, but I remember clearly being that age, and being lonely ( I would often hide in the loos until the end of break time).

My parents, bless them, thought I was great and independent and not a sheep. They aproved of me not being into make up or clothes, or shallow things like that. I was not allowed to watch top of the pops or any show the other kids watched. My parents are kindly left wing intellectuals, who raised me gender neutral ( no barbies etc.).

The fact is though, that deep deep inside I did not want to be with Greenpeace and write letters for Amnesty. I wanted to use make up, try to look pretty and have a good haircut. I would ahve wept with gratitude if anyone would ahve taken me to Toni and Guy. Reality was I had my hair in a braid, and was bookish ( partly because it is a good thing to do when you are alone).

My parents would have said I was happy and fine. I would have agreed, and copied their disdain of pop culture and shallowness of beauty.

But. In a way I was like this because of, and so as not to rock the boat, with my parents.

At around 14 I learned to lie and fake it. I would pretend having seen top of the pops, by listening to other kids and repeating what they said. I remember being caught out when I referred to the Pet Shop Boys as " all those guys on their guitars" haha. But even trying to fit in a bit more meant I became accepted. And after that ( and secrettly applying eye shaddow om the way to school) it was easier. I would ahve been mortified if my mum had stormed into the school to sort out the bullying though!

Teens are very conformist. It takes a strong person to stand out from the crowd. I am not saying your daughter should conform, but if she is going to be her own person, she has to find out her stengths and interests. I know quite a few girls who are not into fashion and beauty, one of them is a karate black belt though, and another does judo.

Personally, I think she may have to try a few things, like martial arts ( fab for self esteem, self defence, for anyone really) or chess, or climbing, or something. If she makes friends outside the school, she will find life at school easier as well.

I have taken on board all your comments - thank you.

I am aware that the school are limited in what they can do (and I think this is what the HoY was saying) but there are resources within the school that can help. This is what I am asking for. I'm not demanding that they haul these girls up and force them to befriend her, I am asking them to notice her. To support her. To make use of their own resources like Student Support.

I will look into clubs later on this aft. She is a very good climber and can climb to the top of most climbing walls but the fees for joining a climbing group are horrendous and out of our price range. I'm talking more than any piano lesson. And those leisure centres big enough to have an indoor climbing wall are more than 10 miles away.

I will devote an hour this aft to searching local clubs so that I can draw up a list to show her. I can't force her to join any of them and I know she finds joining things hard - always being the new girl - but with our support she might find something she likes.

More than anything though I would like to get her involved in something at school so that she can get to know a few other students from other year groups. This way she might get invited to sit with others at lunchtime and breaks and that would be great.

Thank you for sharing Chandon

I sort of agree on disagree on the 'not forcing her' part.

We backed off in the first year DS1 was in senior school (Yr 7) to let him find his own space but in reality he didnt take the initaitive or just didnt go to a club as soon as one of the other kids told him 'drama club is not cool'.

In the end we told him he had no choice about going to clubs but did have a choice about which ones he chose. We told his HOY this and he agreed to make sure DS1 was getting involved.

Sometimes it is the fear of the unknown or just not having confidence to go and join a club without someone else going with you or approving of it that needs to be got over. We used an element of compulsion but of course did not force him to join a club he would hate.

Actually now he really enjoys drama club.

i agree with MoreBeta - she probably does need a bit of a push to do things. this was where our school was so good - they just kept asking her to do things, to help out wiht something, even just running errands, and in each case she was not the only one asked and - lo and behold - the other girls involved are now the ones she is friends with.

becasue the school was doing this, we just needed to be supportive at home - to commiserate when she had to give up a lunchtime to help wiht something - and to be generally interested in what she was doing.

i really hope you can find a teacher who can sort it out for you. it has made all the difference to my dd and my only regret is that i didn't ask for help sooner.

No advice I just wanted to say I feel for you and your DD.

My DD is still in year 6 and she has experienced awful friendship problems, I'm pinning all my hopes on her going to secondary school and meeting new people but I know this may not materialise or if it does there will be other issues.I hate the sense of dread it puts in my tummy when she is unhappy and I hate churning it over in my mind and searching for solutions and secretly cursing instigators.Sometimes I even find it pathetic that she has involved me, othertimes I'm very concerned.

Her drama group has been a salvation, no matter how bad things have been at school the group offers a tremendous release of anxiety,anger and introduces a lot of fun and laughter. The children there are a great mix of personalities and the ethos of the group is to welcome and nurture more delicate personalities.Please get your DD to give it a try if she does not like it she does not have to go again.

I hope things get easier for you both, I often think of what my own Mum (god rest her sole) would have done in my shoes, but I think a clip round the ear and told not to bother her again whilst she was busy springs to mind.

sounds like me at the same age. I found refuge at guides and various musical activities outside school. my school didn't take the very real bullying that i suffered seriously - it was my fault for not being like everyone else and refusing to conform to what the other girls thought was 'normal'. My mum bitterly regrets not doing anything to kick the school up the arse. If Guides wasn't for her (and as a guider I am saddened her leader didn't notice what was happening and do something about it - I like to think that I would have!) perhaps try scouts - less girls, less cliquey (hopefully). My DH swears by karate for confidence building.

School isn't forever and by being independent she will be better set up for making a success of her life. I always think that those who say school is the best time of life must have pretty crappy lives to think that it goes down hill after 18.....

My mum never gave a shit.

Sorry, I think I'm over it and then suddenly I'm not!

It's a fine line being a parent. You have to stand back at times and let them resolve their own issues but you also need to be involved just in case they become overwhelmed.

Getting it right is often an impossible tightrope to walk and I'm sure that there are things I could do better and times when I should have hung back.

But I'm getting dd involved in the meeting. Her tutor, myself and dd can brainstorm between us. That way dd gets to have a say in how she feels and can respond to our suggestions. I feel that by including her I am forcing her to confront the issues and take action. I also hope that it will encourage her to approach her tutor for help if she needs to.

I think this is the right approach to take, but who knows?

Drama club will definitely feature on my list.

No constructive adbvice to all the good advice you have been given I'm afraid, but just wanted to say I really hope there is something the HoY or another teacher can do to help and hope things improve for your DD.

Then you have added impetus to stick up for DD SirCliff ((hug)).

Btw don't know if DD is an only child, don't let them get off the hook with "Oh precious ickle only child, unable to form friendships" which is what a parent of a DS who I know had thrown at her. Red rag to a bull! My own pet hate was, "What doesn't kill them, makes them stronger".

Thanks all

I am reading this with interest as it could be my DD being written about. She too is totally not interested in pop music, make-up , X-factor. Currently she is still at primary but I worry about all the same issues you are facing with your DD. Shame we cannot introduce all the children in the same boat to eachother!!! I have noted down clubs etc, DD gooes to guides but has trouble fitting in there too, and gets teased for being unfashionable. I keep hoping that with a bigger mix of children she will find someone just like her at senior school, I hope that your DD will find her feet soon too. So difficult isn't it? Sympathies!!!

DD1 is a librarian and sings in both choirs, so avoids sitting on her own and avoids the bullies that way.

Y7- Y9 isn't great if you're not into fashion or good at making friends.

It gets better, This year DD1 mentions peoples names and had a list of cards to write.

Otherwise fiends from outside school keep her sane.

Also she's dyslexic and, while academic support is pretty non existent, they did provide a lovely TA that would let her chat and let off steam when it got too much.

There are official mentors (volunteers from the local community), but DD decided not to go down that route.

You are not being PFB, school should have some support in place, good luck and keep nagging. Sadly large senior schools need nagging.

No advice except to say that I was your dd once - and I can safely say that the quiet, different people at school end up being the cool ones at university and in adult life. It gets better, please make sure she knows that!
You're a good parent for standing up for her - no one should have to put up with being made to feel like an outcast.

More than anything though I would like to get her involved in something at school so that she can get to know a few other students from other year groups. This way she might get invited to sit with others at lunchtime and breaks and that would be great.

when you speak to student support see what lunch clubs are on offer dd2 goes to a few TBh I think it is so she doesn't have to deal with the whole playground politics nonsense which is fine she enjoys the clubs she goes to

YANBU

I read that and felt like you were talking about me (minus the X Factor and Bieber!)

I was the "weird kid" at school as I liked The Beatles, didn't have parents who bankrupted themselves for trainers and clothes, and my Dad had a pony tail. Kids can be cruel if they find a reason to rib you. I was classed as a nerd because- shock horror- I didn't tell teachers to Fuck off or else and did my homework (my school was rough as, I missed Grammar by a few marks and they were over subscribed).

Now, I don't think your daughter should become a "sheep" and wear make up and pretend to like things. IME back then it made the bullies worse at "The Try Hard" as they took to calling me.

The school does need to look into what is going on, and why though. Perhaps she feels they don't like her, but its partly paranoia. Looking back (and talking to some girls who are now women with kids from the group who ignored me to please the cooler kids), some are just as unsure of themselves as your daughter. Its a funny age, and as one girl put it "I used to join in as I was petrified that if I didn't, that would be me instead".

Perhaps encourage her relationships with the girls she does get on with, invite them for tea, or trips to the cinema. I joined a lot of outward bound groups outside of school and Guides too, as there was not one of the lot from my school there I could enjoy myself, and it increased my confidence. I was less bothered with the bitchy lot at school as I had like minded mates outside of school for the weekends and holidays.

I had the same with my daughter. The school had a Learning Mentor who went out of her way to find DD at lunchtimes and eat with her, and engineer situations for other children to join them. It was very cleverly and simply done. The other kids didn't dislike DD, they just had their own friendship groups and because DD was quiet and didn't put herself forward, she got overlooked.
Through the support of the mentor, she eventually clicked with a couple of girls.
Now she is Y11, the schools Head Girl, speaks at events, supports younger children etc.
Not a stealth boast!!! But it shows how the support completely changed her life.

I was very quiet and shy at school until about 15 although I did have friends. But I started doing drama and debating and that really gave me a lot more confidence so I think your plan of getting her into clubs is a really good idea and a way to meet new people, particularly if there are outside of school groups. I think starting a book club is a really great idea btw. I was also considered a "bit different" because I liked to dress a bit vintage which wasn't cool back then! And then you go to University and it's amazing how those "cool" girls are suddenly desperate for acknowledgement because they realise they are just little fish in a big sea!

Oh Rhubarb/Cliff I have been through this with DD this year. She is 12 and not particularly worldly. No interest in One Direction or boys or Facebook.

I saw her extrovert, confident personality begin to change and the school were particularly unhelpful, despite it progessing to out and out bullying in the past few months (her lunch was taken, rumours, name calling).

She had one brilliant friend, but the school were absolutely crap about the bullying.

So I moved her. She starts at her new school next year and I am hoping there will be more support, and crucially, more girls like her.

I just couldn't see it ending well for her there. I thought her confidence would gradually be eroded by it.
And she wanted to move.

I feel badly for the friend who has to now battle it on her own. But they will still see each other outside of school.
It is good that your daughter talks to you about it. Keep talking with her and ask her what she wants to do about it.

You have my total sympathy. So difficult.