To not like this Idea of a new multicultural Britain

[monkeyfarm]

I suspect this probably won't go down too well but I'm just being honest as I'm interested to see if I'm the only one who feels this way?
I hate how things are changing, how I can be in a store feel like I'm in eastern europe, why are we one of the only countries that do this? why can't we take a leaf out of the book of Australia and open our doors to people who have something to contribute and not just all and sundry?
Am I on my own in feeling this way?

nailak then for me that is a barrier you have erected. It is a sign of otherness you willingly choose, and I am free to take the hint you send.

Like the Americans, nailak.
The community I worked in was composed of entirely Muslim families from the sub-continent. Parents were largely immigrants, children were second generation.
Their children were third generation.
The second generation were the ones that struggled the most with the traditional expectations of their parents as to how their futures would be, and the alternatives displayed and available to them when they got to secondary school and experienced a life outside the enclosed community of their primary years.
Which is why so many of the girls were sent back 'home' (their terminology) when they were 12 or 13 and returned here married at 16 to a partner from the sub-continent. In the case of many of the Bengali girls, often a man some 30+ years older than them.
Their children also struggled, but having English-speaking mothers who grew up in the UK eased their path somewhat.

Only one person so far seems to have agreed with the OP. I find that heartening.

sorry didn't realise just how many messages here... perhaps not only one..

nebulous have seen but never understood how first gen parents ie those who came to a country repress their children and expect them to conform to the mores of a country hat they were not born in and never lived in. It's one thing appreciating your ethnic or cultural background but quite another to force your children to be divorced from the world they are growing up in.

We are blessed to be living in a place where there is so much Diversity

I think this is the nub of the problem.

The majority of people agree with this statement.

The problem arises when there is no Diversity but incomers form an undiverse area of a town where only they live and where those not from their background feel uncomfortable or just not in Britain.

It's a number game really.

pam it is weird how those around me dont see it as a barrier or sign of otherness! lol, I still am able to be fully active within the community.

That is the "racism". While those I work with and interact with on a daily basis dont see the headscarf as making me other, or as a barrier, you perceive this barrier, this hint which is not there. How can clothing be a barrier?

That is like me saying I see someone with a shaved head and I wouldnt interact with them because of the hint they are sending that they are skinheads! lol

but why do people feel unwelcome or not in Britain?

firstly because they fail to understand brown people are just as british as them, there are many kids in their teens here whose parents were born here. They perception is brown people are not British so if surrounded by brown faces feel they are not in Britain!

and why do they feel uncomfortable? beacause of these imagined hints and barriers. As a woman I believe women should be in control of their body and who sees it and touches it. However if I make the choice to not let others see my hair then that is a hint that I want to be other? that is a barrier? I have to show certain parts of my body that I may not be comfortable doing so in order to prove my Britishness, and that I am not other?

Signs of otherness - headscarf wearing

www.stylebistro.com/lookbook/Queen+Elizabeth+II/-kMYqk-AzX8

I'm not sure how much in common with her!

I'm not sure how much I have in common with her

'firstly because they fail to understand brown people are just as british as them, there are many kids in their teens here whose parents were born here. They perception is brown people are not British so if surrounded by brown faces feel they are not in Britain!'

nailak, that is one of the reasons that Operation Trident had so little impact on the consciousness of the country on a wide scale. Black on black crime, black teenagers killing each other was not seen as relevant to them by a lot of the population.
www.citizensreportuk.org/reports/teenage-murder-london.html

And yet vociferous members of the black community wanted to curtail stop and search when it was black kids who were mostly the victims!

Were and are.

^^ according to that I live in the area with most teenage murders and the third most deprived area

Hilarious nailak lol

Why do you think your area has such issues nailak?
I moved areas when I had children, from a high poverty, high crime, 6th most deprived in Europe area to a classy bit of Sussex which has very low levels of the above.

Chazs, both my Catholic grannies wore a headscarf like that. I'm not sure about UK, but every married woman in continental Europe used to cover her head when out and about. My grannies also never wore trousers, except for freezing winter, but then they put skirt on top, very much like Muslim women do now.

I see Muslims as people who stick to their tradition and maintain strong bond between generations, while in our society everyone is on their own doing 'whatever'.

Serious question.

How long does something or someone have to be in britain in order to be british?

Christmas is an import. Pushed out the pagan festivals that were the tradition of the people here. Is christmas unacceptable?

The romans came over and settled. Should all their descendents go back or are they british?

Vikings?

I mean, life didn't crawl off skeggy beach now, did it? All humans in this country came here.

So really it is simply a question of time. A hundred years? Five hundred? A thousand?

And since it is just a question of time, the idea of protecting britishness is stupid. All someone is suggesting protecting is the here and now. The traditions imported from other countries many many hundreds or thousands of years ago. The people who came from other countries many hundreds or thousands of years ago. The language that came with the people who came here. Cos we sure as hell don't all speak the celtic languages, do we?

So what is the amount of time, in years? And in five hundred years, what that the bigots today are complaining about will be quintessentially british and aggressively protected by the bigots of that time?

PessaryPam - that would because every study on stop and search has shown that it's discriminatory. On average, white people will be stopped about 10-15% of the time and have 70-80% of the contraband. It's like drugs - 13% of drugs users are black, but make up 60% of the those in jail for drug offences. The criminal justice system is not racially blind.

I'm white passing and wear always a cloth cap, my very white English back centuries GMIL wears scarves out, many of my friends wear wigs out, is this a problem or is it it only a barrier of otherness when it's Muslim? Seeing and acknowledging the difference isn't a problem, in fact it's important in starting to recognize how differently things can affect us and work on the problems within the systems of oppression, but treating someone differently/with presumptions because of it is very xenophobic.

I'm not putting a label of other to push other away, I'm dressing in a way I find comfortable. If you are uncomfortable with it, the problem is with you even though I am the one likely to suffer the backlash.

May is out- I wasn't trying to skirt the issues, I was simply pointing out that a great deal of things that we take for granted in this country are imported.

Asking if I think we should be forcing young girls into marriage is just inflammatory. There are people in every race, religion and political persuasion who are good and bad, radical Christians are as bad as radical Muslims but dint have the same stigma attached.

Focusing on a minority of immigrants who force their children into marriage is blinkering yourself. The problem there is a small minded refusal to see and accept other ways of thinking, same problem that you seem to suffer from.

People in glass houses.....

deck
Yes exactly - when my parents went to visit my Dad's family in rural Ireland the women sat on one side of the church and the men on the other.

I find it a bit strange (as someone who is married to a Muslim) how selective people are in picking on characteristics to identify otherness. Covering hair = oppression (unless you happen to be a Sikh man, the Queen, older Christian lady etc).

why does my area have issues? i dont know.

But I am blessed to live here in an area where all cultures are valued and respected and get on well, where covering your head, doesnt indicate otherness and prevent employment etc, where my kids can be friends with people from different backgrounds, cultures and religions.

It might have the most teenage murders as it has the biggest population under 25, and the figures are not given per percentage of population that are teens, it might be the most deprived due to housing, and overcrowding.

hec thats what I have been asking, it is obvious that people who dont consider themselves immigrants, such as myself (as where did I migrate from? if I was born here?) are considered immigrants by others, people who consider this their home country, but others say it is their "host" country, I mean if my kids were born here and I was born here am I an immigrant still? are my kids immigrants still? Do they have to prove their "Britishness" by conforming to some set of dress code and codes of social interaction which includes approving of sex before marriage?

The fact that there is intolerance and narrow-mindedness in all areas of any community is why I value tolerance and the freedom of the individual to make their own choices, provided they are legal, regardless of what their family or community deems appropriate.
Covering or not covering, marrying or not, divorce, equal opportunities, same-sex relationships, drinking alcohol, living with a dozen cats all called Marmaduke...Free to choose. Free to live safe from persecution, stoning, necklacing or being burned as a witch.

I would like to add to what Hec said, further up this page.

Every single person in this country is either an immigrant, or descended from an immigrant. The furtherest I've personally ever known anyone manage to trace their ancestry back before encountering an immigrant or two was a bloke who managed to get back a thousand years- back to the Norman Invasion.

I myself know I am descended from Irish immigrants on one side. Have you ever seen these signs in documentaries? <a class="break-all" href="http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=www.meramirpur.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/poster-no-irish.jpg&imgrefurl=www.meramirpur.com/racism-in-britain.html&h=500&w=375&sz=230&tbnid=Icqcx10zL0XOeM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=68&zoom=1&usg=__aY4up6Lc7uPvkoQaafy2AehFewc=&docid=E80GX_pI3r8wZM&sa=X&ei=1snNUO_7IsLM0AXCq4G4AQ&ved=0CDUQ9QEwAA&dur=2566" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=www.meramirpur.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/poster-no-irish.jpg&imgrefurl=www.meramirpur.com/racism-in-britain.html&h=500&w=375&sz=230&tbnid=Icqcx10zL0XOeM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=68&zoom=1&usg=__aY4up6Lc7uPvkoQaafy2AehFewc=&docid=E80GX_pI3r8wZM&sa=X&ei=1snNUO_7IsLM0AXCq4G4AQ&ved=0CDUQ9QEwAA&dur=2566

No blacks, no dogs, no Irish.

Today, I, the descendent of Irish immigrants meet with no discrimination. Yet the descendants of those black immigrants do. Why? Simply that racists can see that they once had immigrant ancestors, but they assume that I haven't, just as they assume they themselves haven't.

Why am I fully integrated into society, whereas the descendants of non-whites aren't always? Because racists let me and my forebears integrate, once they'd lost the accent. It's not because white people are better at integrating. Just look at the Costa del Brit for evidence of that. Unfortunately, if you can't pass for white, every discriminatory bastard notices you.

"Serious question. How long does something or someone have to be in britain in order to be british? Christmas is an import. Pushed out the pagan festivals that were the tradition of the people here. Is christmas unacceptable? The romans came over and settled. Should all their descendents go back or are they british?"

Good point Hecate. Allow me to blow your mind by pointing out that the very British tea-drinking habit was actually brought to you by a Portuguese Queen. As for the quintessential fish&chips you owe that to Portuguese Jews.

We have lived in a "multicultural" world for a long time.