To not like this Idea of a new multicultural Britain

[monkeyfarm]

I suspect this probably won't go down too well but I'm just being honest as I'm interested to see if I'm the only one who feels this way?
I hate how things are changing, how I can be in a store feel like I'm in eastern europe, why are we one of the only countries that do this? why can't we take a leaf out of the book of Australia and open our doors to people who have something to contribute and not just all and sundry?
Am I on my own in feeling this way?

Thing is, I'm not unhappy with mosques and non English food stores in the UK. Just wish people could talk about their thoughts and fears without other folk jumping on them calling them racist and xenophobic. It's a very complex subject.

Ok, I'll talk about it. I think i'm quite liberal. I try and bring my kids up to respect every religion, culture, race and sexual orientation. I want them to be open minded. Thing is I don't know if some of these others cultures and religions feel the same or would want to if they had the chance to restrict the freedoms I try and instill in my children's minds.

Exactly...and why should we tolerate it?

On other issues - what about the Pakistani sex gangs operating all over the UK? Is that acceptable?
Certain areas of Boston, Spalding & Lincoln are now Eastern European areas and kind of no-go areas for English people. I drive down these streets when I'm at work and always see lots of youngish Eastern European men sitting in the street drinking cans of beer (or whatever) at all hours of the day and night. What about the unfortunate people who bought houses there years ago to bring up a family and have seen their home area turned into a dosshole?

But that's very 'British' . I can think of many areas at home in Scotland where the local population sit around drinking cans. Isn't that just what many poor, disenfranchised people do?

eliza I have roast beef dinners from time to time; English is my mother tongue and I know no language as well as English. I don't support fox hunting but that's on humanitarian grounds. I also speak other languages and also enjoy other cuisines and my home has things from all the different places I have been to and lived in.

If I'm not white, and brought my children up to be like me in my attitudes and approach, would you have a problem with me living in your neighbourhood?

I live across the road from a large YMCA centre that houses young people, only Brits and many spend time out front drinking cans of beer (to the point that when a new corner shop opened, they weren't allowed to sell alcohol as it might have made the issue worse - though when there are three very British pubs, a British Fish and Chips shop, and two British newsagents all selling it within walking distance, the real main issue was them congregating there instead). Like Begonia, it's seen as very British in some areas.

Cultural Pluralism really isn't new: Muslim Moors were in the UK over a thousand years ago, the Jewish and African populations even longer than that. There is far more to the UK than roast dinners (vegetarian Brits?), fox hunting ( that seems like a hobby for very few people), and even speaking English [Welsh, Gaelic, BSL or should we go back to punishing people for using those?].

We're the only house in our area that celebrates Channukah - this week our curtains were open after dark with our little oil candles. And even with the large lot of gregarious youths across the road, no one cared or was bothered or by the difference. While I think better EAL teaching could help a lot of people (it's a very hard language), I think more education and exposure is what this country needs, not less.

And I just cannot get why people are bothered by buildings and shops they don't use - a mosque is no more odd or a problem than a Catholic church, nor a Polish food store than an expensive shoe store (though the former tend to have interesting juice and pickles) they're just buildings other people need/want and I don't use. Good people can use them when so many places are going empty.

Eliza, in my experience, Polish people move into dossholes, as they are not prejudiced against working (or non working) classes and are one of the few there who go out to work every day.

?So I'm with the OP. I want to live in a country of roast beef dinners, fox-hunting, English speaking schools etc"

Well, I don't like roast beef but wasn't aware that it was prohibited to eat it, have never come across a non English speaking school, and am amazed to discover that immigrants forced the fox hunting ban!

Zombies - "You" in that post is nailak. I thought that was obvious.

deck - I'm not affected at all, actually. But I understand why people who are affected could be resentful as a result.

The point is that this resentment is automatically labelled "racism" and that is not necessarily true.

nailak - re "no cote, I believe I should only enjoy sex within marriage, I should cover..."

I'm happy for you that you conform so well to the expectations of your community, but not everyone is so inclined. What happens when a teenage girl born into such a fundamentalist Muslim community doesn't want to cover up, wants to have boyfriends, and have sex with them?

Is her Muslim community tolerant? Does she live happily as before in her family, with her friends and community? Or does she get ostracised from her community, lose her friends, get kicked out of her home, and in some sad cases, even get hunted down and killed like an animal?

And when these things happen, is "racism" really the reason why the mainstream "British" community in the UK doesn't want to live side by side with these people?

I like living in a country which celebrates diversity, I prefer living in an area with a wide range of people from variety of backgrounds and locations, but I also like the laws we have about equality, discrimination and freedom of the individual.
So when those laws are broken, I don't think a cultural defence should be applicable.
Especially when it involves human rights, children's rights and the freedom of the individual to act in a way that their community finds unacceptable.
And yes nailak, I have stepped between a pupil and the local iman when my class and I were out on a visit and he spotted her not wearing her dupatta.
He hit me with his rattan instead and was very apologetic. But it bloody well hurt.
I then had to warn him that any further physical abuse of a pupil would involve the police.

It's easy to decide whether you're being racist or not. If you think "This person is unpleasant and nasty and has reactionary ideas"- you are not being racist. If you think " This person is unpleasant etc because they come from X" or "This person comes from X and therefore will be unpleasant etc." then you are.

Oh, and for some reason, lots of racists can't spell racist. Another little identifying tip........

I'm also puzzled about immigration, if I was a Christian who had to leave my own country for whatever reason, I'd be looking for a destination I could live in happily.
One where I felt I would not be under pressure to adapt in ways that I was unwilling or unable to do so.
So, not Quetta for example, where a friend's children had stones thrown at them on a regular basis by outraged locals.
I read an article a few months back about a number of Muslim refugees risking everything, life, families, money to escape to Europe. Why not to a Muslim country? Often even with the same language?

I currently teach in a school with more than 17 languages spoken, and families from every continent. It is wonderful, but some of the families do struggle when their girls become aware of the freedoms they are entitled to, and the choices that are theirs to make. Especially as they look to their futures as adults.

Eliza
I did roast chicken last night, does that count? My children are native english speakers as they were born here. They go to quite a traditional prep school etc.

They are also Muslim and half North African.

The Merrie England you hold so dear has been on the wane for years, not due to immigration but due to social and economic changes and increased urbanisation. Don't blame immigrants for changes that were happening anyway. Immigrants aren't the reason fox hunting was banned it was because the increasingly urban population sees it as cruel.

What's not to like?

It always makes me laugh how many people say they want Britain to be British but fail to recognized just how much would lose.

I love being able to easily get hold of new foods to cook that wouldn't be available to us if they hadn't first been brought over by immigrants.

When you ship all these non-contributing immigrants back home will you be sending all non-British produce home with them?

Ds2 may stage a rebellions not to far you send his bananas away!

So prettypesty we should all be wearing headscarfs and forcing girls into marriage with whoever pays us the most for a resident's visa?

No?

And there are many schools where English is not the predominant first language.

I love how the pro immigration skirt the issues.

By wearing abayah I am going against the expectations of my community, I am not conforming to it! lol I don't even know who my local imam is, never seen his face!

Likewise many south asian girls are going against the expectations of their community by covering, how many old asian women do you see in abayah? not many because traditionally they dont wear it, it is not something they expect. Many are against the idea and come out with stuff lik how will you get married etc. Like I said I know many more girls whose family wanted to disuade them from covering then girls whose family said yeah sure wear niqab!

sure most families would expect the girls to wear loose clothing or something, but not covering

"Is her Muslim community tolerant? Does she live happily as before in her family, with her friends and community? Or does she get ostracised from her community, lose her friends, get kicked out of her home, and in some sad cases, even get hunted down and killed like an animal?"

from my experience none of that happens, like I said my cousin is going out with a Muslim girl, her family are strict tablighi, spend time knocking on peoples doors telling them to go to the masjid etc, she openly lives with him, and her family might not like it or encourage it however she still sees them happily, takes out her nephew (he calls her mummy as well) still sees her friends.

I am still not getting this idea of friends and community being only Muslim! lol our communities are made up from neighbours, schools, etc and are not only Muslim, our friends are from work, school, uni and are not only Muslims.

There are many girls who do the things you talk of cote. very few families dis own them. there are so many girls who dont cover, even many middle aged women who dont cover, no one blinks an eye lid, these problems you talk of i dont see them. I am part of the community, if someone doesnt cover, do i stop being friends with her? of course not!

nailak Do you wear a headscarf outside the home?

www.islamic.org.uk/hijab.html

maisy what are you on about?

I wish my kids and I knew another language! it is a great skill to have, studies show by age 11 those who have two languages at native level overtake those who dont due to the skills needed.

I dont believe anyone should be forced in to marriage or forced to wear a headscarf and I would fight against this if I found it.

and one more question maisy how do you define immigrant? is someone born here and their parents born here an immigrant?

pam yes I do,

nailak unfortunately there are cases such as this. Unfortunately it seems there are many who do not have your world views or enlightened approach.