Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

To not like this Idea of a new multicultural Britain

789 replies

monkeyfarm · 12/12/2012 10:55

I suspect this probably won't go down too well but I'm just being honest as I'm interested to see if I'm the only one who feels this way?
I hate how things are changing, how I can be in a store feel like I'm in eastern europe, why are we one of the only countries that do this? why can't we take a leaf out of the book of Australia and open our doors to people who have something to contribute and not just all and sundry?
Am I on my own in feeling this way?

OP posts:
PoppyAmex · 14/12/2012 20:31

Mayisout that post is hugely offensive.

PoppyAmex · 14/12/2012 20:32

How dare you make such assumptions about my country, my family and our ethics?

alemci · 14/12/2012 21:07

re: Maisy's point - aren't there some cases of people like that here. Why isn't she allowed to give her opinion.

PoppyAmex · 14/12/2012 21:13

"Believe me the ones who arrive on our doorsteps are not generally the poor and needy - but instead the ones with some money and clout in their own country to get the required visas and air fares to get here.
The ones whose bribery got their child into the best university. The ones who were the political yes men to whichever corrupt leader ruled their country."

This is not "an opinion", alemci.
It's an ignorant generalisation that's hugely offensive.

alemci · 14/12/2012 21:20

perhaps that is what she has seen Poppy. Maybe not for everyone but I could think of some examples.

ZombiesAreClammyDodgers · 14/12/2012 21:20

mayisout as an immigrant I don't completely disagree with you but I think generalisations can be inaccurate and yours is. There are a lot of those people who can legitimately pay their way in- there is a category of visa that allows rich people to get in super quick. But many other are - like me- earning an honest living in a moderately paid job, paying taxes for years, buying property to live in, paying local tradesmen and for local services, taking no benefits, who genuinely love this country and what it stands for, and may still have to leave lock stock and barrel if even one small thing goes wrong.
Please don't generalise.

alemci · 14/12/2012 21:30

Zombies I think what starts to grate is is that people who are sceptical of the benefits of mass immigration and multiculture are slammed down for stating this and have valid points.

but on the flip side of the argument for MC sweeping generalisations are made about how wonderful everyone who comes to Britain is and how everyone contributes and enriches the place. Is that honestly the case. This causes resentment. People benefit greatly from coming here and we are a tolerant society.

I don't think other countries in the EU are necessarily as welcoming and tolerant.

exoticfruits · 14/12/2012 22:18

I don't think the Saxons were too keen on the Vikings!

nailak · 14/12/2012 22:37

hmmm, I know someone who married his cousin and brought her over, she couldnt speak English, and she had six kids close together, she claimed benefits for a while in her life as well,

she is now a respected member of the community and supports others, has worked as a childminder and a seamstress, has kids who are educated and have been to uni are working.

He has two houses.

Her English is still not perfect, but I don't see why being a young bride, having an arranged marriage and lots of kids etc means that you dont contribute to society?

Another one of my friends escaped the war in Somalia with her family, her mum was hard working as a refugee in Kenya, she sold ice at the side of the road, she worked till literally the minute she gave birth (she gave birth in a stock room) she came to England with her husband, 5 kids and 2 step siblings, and one is a police man, one is a dr, one worked for MENCAP, they all contribute to the society they live in. The mother doesn't speak English like a native, and she stays home and looks after her grandkids so her daughters can work. So because she had lots of kids and can't speak English to a high standard does it mean she doesn't contribute to society?

Is this not a feminist issue? as by saying such women don't contribute to society is basically devaluing the role of mother and carer? Is it not contributing to society when you bring up kids who are educated, responsible, and pay taxes?

PoppyAmex · 14/12/2012 22:52

"People benefit greatly from coming here and we are a tolerant society."

I like to think Britain also benefits from my presence, in the form of my money, my high rate taxes, the volunteering I do in my community, the money I give to local charities and the daughter I'm raising to be a contributing member of society.

As I said upthread, there are more British immigrants in my country than vice-versa; how would you feel if they were vilified and tainted with this derogatory brush?

nailak · 14/12/2012 23:09

I think sometimes people over estimate the benefits of living here, my mum and dad are from south Africa, my lifestyle would be better if I lived there, I would still have educational opportunities, would have bigger house, better weather, maid, more family around etc, however this is my home, and my mums home, she has been here for so long, is working here and is used to it now. This doesnt mean that the lifestyle is better here for us then else where.

I know Pakistanis who at home have drivers and cooks and maids and work as lawyers (male and female) and come here and the lifestyle is different, but not necessarily better. They come for experience, marriage, a change.

Not all foreigners are penniless and destitute :s

ZombiesAreClammyDodgers · 14/12/2012 23:14

I know nailak. A lot of people assess what is more important to them. I know many people who would earn more where they came from and I don't mean I mean in actual terms ie after you convert. They're still here. Some people just like it here even though it's not all milk and honey :)

PessaryPam · 14/12/2012 23:19

PoppyAmex As for Pessary's comment about British "expats" not claiming benefits in other countries... I just had to laugh.
Share the joke Poppy please...

PessaryPam · 14/12/2012 23:32

Mayisout you seem to have offended some, good on you girl.
Fluffy seems to have a good handle on the issues.
Poppy seems to be permanently offended for some reaon she only knows.
alemci yes you are right.
nailak how healthy are the kids being the result of probable multiple cousin marriage?
He has two houses. And he is contributing how? By being some horrible landlord. Good god if he was white he would be castigated for being some kind of exploitative bastard.
Re Somalia I am on the side of Ayaan Hirsi Ali and she has short shrift.

ZombiesAreClammyDodgers · 14/12/2012 23:43

Yeah I have to say fluffy makes a lot of sense.

nailak · 15/12/2012 00:15

pam the first family I talked about, yes they are cousins,the kids are healthy lol, i am also healthy as is my bro. My parents are cousins. They have never been anywhere near the sub continent.

the two houses was demonstrative that he pays taxes, has mortgages etc, and is not living of benefits.

I don't get the relevance to ayaan hirsi ali? just because i mentioned somalia? the point was she came as an asylum seeker in dire circumstances and raised children who are contributing to the society they live in and call home, and she is enabling them to do this through being a carer for her grand kids. In my book that counts for a lot.

cory · 15/12/2012 09:52

Interesting discussion about why people choose to come to Britain.

I can tell you the main reason behind my choice.

Dh is English. That is, he is considerably darker than the average Swede- in fact, he could well be taken for Middle Eastern or Southern European. He speaks Swedish badly, with a strong accent and a plethora of grammatical mistakes. In the eyes of the prejudiced (and they exist in Sweden as well as in the UK), he would fall in the category of undesirable scroungers that do not contribute anything useful to society. He would almost certainly have encountered prejudice and racial abuse at some stage, at least from people who didn't know he was English. I didn't want that for him.

I otoh speak English with only a slight trace of an accent and my looks are unremarkable: many people I meet won't even register that I'm foreign. And if people do spot my foreignness, they will probably put me in the category of "contributing foreigners".

My prediction has proved correct: I have encountered very little prejudice.

There is actually nothing to choose between me and dh in terms of morality. But prejudice isn't about fact: it's about perception.

wordfactory · 15/12/2012 10:14

I'm actually not that worried about what people contribute. Since the vast majority of indegenous people are net takers from the system, it's not somehting I can get het up about.

If a few folk get a life saving op and haven't paid in...meh.

But what I am bothered about is protecting the freedoms we have in the UK. And anyone who comes should respect and be made to respect those freedoms.

PessaryPam · 15/12/2012 10:51

Fluffybumblebee welcome and I hope you stay. I agree 100% with your post.

wildirishrose · 15/12/2012 10:56

I don?t think the odd person from whatever country creates a problem but when a huge influx from X country land in the UK and overpopulate certain areas without integrating it causes problems.

PessaryPam · 15/12/2012 10:58

wordfactory someone has to pay for this though, I think there is a lot of health tourism around maternity services which are famously overstretched at the moment.

Our freedom here in the UK is under constant threat and we should all resist the extra governmental controls being proposed as it will be inevitably abused, as was RIPA.

Abitwobblynow · 15/12/2012 11:24

speech from Ed Milliband:

And yet in terms of actual policy, it was a genuinely challenging prospectus. Language tests: ?If we are going to build One Nation, our goal should be that everyone in Britain should know how to speak English. 
We should expect that of people that come here. 
The last Labour government raised the language requirements for people seeking to enter Britain on work and family visas. 
 That was the right approach.? A scaling back of translation services: ?English language must be the priority. 
In a world where there is less money around, more of a priority than many written translation materials?.
The previous Labour government had, ?made mistakes?, he admitted. ?As I have said before, the capacity of our economy to absorb new migrants was greater than the capacity of some of our communities to adapt.? This meant ?we will learn lessons from Eastern European migration and ensure maximum transitional controls in future?. And most significantly, ?we will look at the whole system of control for non-EU migration, including the Government?s cap, to ensure a system that works.?
Language tests for public sector employees, cuts in translation services, transitional immigration controls for EU workers, a full cap for those from outside. If Tony Blair had proposed those things, the Labour grassroots would have been uproar. Today the only sound is polite applause.
That reveals a number of things. Firstly, the extent to which Labour?s footsoldiers are prepared to march in step with their leader. Or, perhaps more accurately, the extent to which their leader is ensuring he keeps time with his troops.
Whatever the shadow cabinet, the Parliamentary Labour Party and commentators like me may feel about Ed Miliband?s stewardship of his party, his members are warming too it. That?s why a speech like today, which would have caused mayhem had it been delivered by a hardened disciple of New Labour, is met by thoughtful and open minds.
It?s also clear that Miliband?s self-definition as a politician of conviction and high principle is starting to pay dividends, at least amongst his own faithful. He is in effect the de facto keeper of the liberal progressive flame. ?If it?s OK with Ed,? his youthful campaigners are beginning to say to themselves, ?then it?s OK with me.?
All of which reveals a third important truth, which is that, for perhaps the first time in his leadership, Ed Miliband has some political space to play with. Obviously, he has to be careful how he uses it. If he keeps marching his party to the Right on issue after issue, it will start to indulge in its favourite pastime of hunt the traitor. But his speech on immigration, which contained much more than the usual platitudes about opening debates and facing hard realities, has shown that if presented in the right way, and wrapped in the right language, Labour is prepared to place pragmatism alongside its idealism.
Of course there are still many areas that remain out of bounds. On deficit reduction, public spending and welfare Labour is still not even on the park. But this speech demonstrated it could be if it wanted to.
Ed Miliband took an important political step today. And significantly, his party took it with him.

  • Dan Hodges, Labour activist
alemci · 15/12/2012 11:27

Nailak

OOH did you not feel sorry for the maids in SA. I remember going there in the 90's and they lived in a shed on the edge of the house. wasn't so great for the black S A people but maybe it has changed.

I remember my M I L being quite upset about it

OOH alot of people do come here with very little and they get housed etc and I wonder what standard of living they would have in their country of birth.

Cozy9 · 15/12/2012 11:33

IMO we should only accept highly skilled immigrants, and only a certain number per year. That includes the EU.

BegoniaBampot · 15/12/2012 13:42

I think the benefit of living in the UK isn't necessarily about your standard of living but that it is a democratic, tolerant country with education and health services for all and strict laws on health and safety, workers rights and human rights. You could have a big house somewhere else with servants with less human rights, equality and tolerance.