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Original poster

To not like this Idea of a new multicultural Britain

789 replies

monkeyfarm · 12/12/2012 10:55

I suspect this probably won't go down too well but I'm just being honest as I'm interested to see if I'm the only one who feels this way?
I hate how things are changing, how I can be in a store feel like I'm in eastern europe, why are we one of the only countries that do this? why can't we take a leaf out of the book of Australia and open our doors to people who have something to contribute and not just all and sundry?
Am I on my own in feeling this way?

OP posts:
ReallyTired · 14/12/2012 14:03

I thought the law was changing in that employers could not bring in people to do jobs that paid less than a certain amount. The Filipino housekeeper would have to be extremely well paid to be allowed in.

The issue is excessive immigration from EU nations rather than non eu immigration. Our young people with limited experience find it hard to compete for jobs. I am not sure what is the best way forward on this. This is an EU wide problem and needs discussion at EU level.

Shagmundfreud · 14/12/2012 14:12

Now you see I believe that immigration improves the genetic 'stock' of a country in the sense that we are creaming off some of the most energetic, versatile and resilient people from other countries.

If immigrants come to this country and take jobs away from those people already living here it's often because employers may feel they get more for their money - in terms of intelligence and resourcefulness - when they employ an immigrant.

wordfactory · 14/12/2012 14:15

shag and sometimes it's because employers can get away with a lot more with immigrants. Hard earned rights can be sidelined if you can get yourself a willing yet temporary work force (not to mention an illegal one).

ReallyTired · 14/12/2012 15:09

"If immigrants come to this country and take jobs away from those people already living here it's often because employers may feel they get more for their money - in terms of intelligence and resourcefulness - when they employ an immigrant. "

I am sure what you are saying is true.

Immigrants do provide employers with more for their money. Employers have no incentive to train up inexperienced people to do a job when they can get someone with experience for peanuts.

The UK has a massive problems with NEETs. Many graduates do have skills but they have no experience. They find themselves in the trap that you need the experience to get the job and can only get experience by doing the job. Unless you have a rich daddy then doing unpaid internships is not an option.

I don't know what is the best way round this issue. In the long term not getting our long people into paid work will damage us as a nation.

lovetomoan · 14/12/2012 15:32

my 1st ever Biscuit

wordfactory · 14/12/2012 15:46

reallytired it is quite usual now for factories to employ almost all their staff on short term contracts. That way they can avoid holiday pay, sickness pay, maternity pay, redundancy etc

Plenty of Eastern Europeans prepared to work that way.

PessaryPam · 14/12/2012 16:12

Shagmundfreud Now you see I believe that immigration improves the genetic 'stock' of a country in the sense that we are creaming off some of the most energetic, versatile and resilient people from other countries.

Well maybe but then you get this....

news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_9714000/9714582.stm

MrsDeVere · 14/12/2012 16:37

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PoppyAmex · 14/12/2012 17:05

What really annoys me is the lack of honesty behind all these arguments.

The reality is you're not annoyed because immigrants come and take your jobs, you're not annoyed because it's changing the "cultural and social fabric" of this country... in fact you're not even annoyed about immigration!

What you're annoyed about is a certain type of immigrant and THAT'S what makes you a racist and a xenophobe.

I'm from Portugal and was an immigrant in Australia for 8 years and am now in this country because I married a Scottish man and my baby was born here.

I brought money earned abroad to buy my house, I employ British people (accountants, gardeners, cleaners etc.) and I have never heard a single complaint about my presence in Britain.

In fact, people like you even complain to ME about "immigrants" and when I protest (as I'm one myself) they say "it's different".

You have no issue with immigrants from Sweden, US, Canada, Germany or Holland. And WE KNOW WHY.

PessaryPam · 14/12/2012 17:06

DeVere is the BBC wrong then? I think it's stupid to lump all immigration together. Different groups behave very differently in the host society.

I would agree that interbreeding immigrants do strengthen the general genetic pool of a society. Apparently Ireland has a very high incidence of genetic diseases because of being closed off over many generations so people were more likely to be marrying someone they were related to in some way. Hence recessive conditions are more likely to occur.

I do understand biology but in order to get the strengthening effect they have to actually interbreed in the 1st place!

Rindercella · 14/12/2012 17:06

Poppy, you have it spot on!

PessaryPam · 14/12/2012 17:12

Poppy I think people can have the right to be annoyed by more than one aspect of a situation. There are economic and cultural consequences to our society and it's a very complex issue. I may be extremely happy to have my Indonesian friend living and working here and then be less than thrilled at a Somalian family of 10 living off benefits and taking NHS resources. The former has integrated and has married a local guy, the latter will remain in their own community and carry on with 'cultural practices' which I as a feminist find morally repugnant.

ZombiesAreClammyDodgers · 14/12/2012 17:19

poppy and pessary you're actually both right.
The truth is there are some people who don't care how much you integrate, if you don't look a certain way, they will always be resentful of you.
And not everyone can be tarred with the same brush. When I see other immigrants who insist on not integrating it sets my teeth on edge too. What's the point of living in a different country then- might as well go back. I wouldn't say marrying someone from here is the only way to integrate though.

Rindercella · 14/12/2012 17:22

British 'expats' never do that do they Pessary? All gather together in the same community, don't integrate into the culture where they are living, don't learn the language...nope, I can't think of a single country where British expats live where that happens. Apart from Hong Kong. Oh, and Singapore. Crikey, Spain too. And Italy. Gosh, just about everywhere actually. You know Pessary, it's the nature of humans - we tend to gather where we feel most comfortable.

cory · 14/12/2012 17:24

If you were right, Pam, an immigrant Swedish SAHM who speaks poor English and carries on an ex-pat pickled herrings and meatballs lifestyle would encounter far more prejudice and hostility than a degree educated Indian who pays high taxes and plays cricket in his spare time. And do we believe this to be the case? Hmm

The one person who would never encounter any prejudice would be a black native speaker of English born in this country and with no exposure to foreign culture of any kind. And this is what we see around us? Hmm

PessaryPam · 14/12/2012 17:25

Zombies, I agree, I was just hi-lighting extremes.

My views are pretty liberal but I do think we can be a soft touch because it's easy to scream racist, it's like being accused of being a witch back in the dark ages. It shuts down discussion and leads to simmering resentment.

Some people just don't like people who are different from them, I think it's their loss.

PessaryPam · 14/12/2012 17:30

I am sure some people will just dislike anyone who is differently pigmented but it is disingenuous to imply that everyone who has a problem with our immigration policies is basing it solely on that. Many have quite genuine concerns.

Rinder, my dear old ma used to tell me that 2 wrongs don't make a right. Your point is? Also are those expats claiming benefits in those countries?

cory · 14/12/2012 17:37

Yes, but people's concerns still seem to be triggered by certain immigrants and not by others, based on the assumption that it is only certain types of nationalities who are scrounging/refusing to integrate etc etc.

Nobody's ever asked me what my contribution to this great nation is or worried in case I am hanging onto too much of my old culture. I get told what a wonderful opportunity it is for my children to be bilingual- as if speaking Swedish was somehow a more useful asset than speaking Hindi or Punjabi.

Cozy9 · 14/12/2012 17:39

Are there any Swedish SAHMs who speak poor English in this country?

ilovemydogandMrObama · 14/12/2012 17:40

little known fact: There are more Americans in the UK than Bangladeshis.

cory · 14/12/2012 17:42

Cozy9 Fri 14-Dec-12 17:39:25
"Are there any Swedish SAHMs who speak poor English in this country? "

I have met some.

CoteDAzur · 14/12/2012 17:51

"You have no issue with immigrants from Sweden, US, Canada, Germany or Holland. And WE KNOW WHY"

This is interesting. Do you think it is because they are racist, or because the above countries' cultures are not that different than the British?

Rindercella · 14/12/2012 17:53

My point pessary is that people do tend to stick to what they feel most comfortable with, tis human nature. To try to cover up your own racism and xenophobia you are using this as a reason to not like specific groups of immigrants. I personally find that deeply abhorrent.

I also know a couple of Swedish SAHMs whose English is pretty poor Cory. I don't judge them. Just as I don't judge the man I knew in Italy who proudly proclaimed in the 5 years of living there he had learnt not one word of the language well actually I did judge him to be a twat.

cory · 14/12/2012 18:01

CoteDAzur Fri 14-Dec-12 17:51:37
""You have no issue with immigrants from Sweden, US, Canada, Germany or Holland. And WE KNOW WHY"

This is interesting. Do you think it is because they are racist, or because the above countries' cultures are not that different than the British?"

I think it is because prejudices make people less likely to assume that cultural differences will cause a problem.

Let's face it, a nation that eats pickled herring for breakfast is actually pretty odd seen from a British pov, but somehow people tend not to notice the oddness. You wouldn't understand me when I spoke Swedish any more than you would understand an Indian speaking Gujarati. But people tend not to worry about that so much.

My mother has this idea that Norwegian culture and society is just like Swedish and will not be convinced by any witnessing from Swedes who actually live in Norway; she skims lightly over the most blatant differences because she has this underlying belief that they must be similar. Otoh she is mildly hostile to British culture since her only dd moved to the UK and therefore experiences differences as far greater than they actually are.

CurrentBun · 14/12/2012 18:26

I don't mind who sets up camp in the UK as long as they contribute to society in some way or another and don't drain resources. Oh, and they also abide by our laws and respect our culture as we respect and tolerate their's.