To not like this Idea of a new multicultural Britain

[monkeyfarm]

I suspect this probably won't go down too well but I'm just being honest as I'm interested to see if I'm the only one who feels this way?
I hate how things are changing, how I can be in a store feel like I'm in eastern europe, why are we one of the only countries that do this? why can't we take a leaf out of the book of Australia and open our doors to people who have something to contribute and not just all and sundry?
Am I on my own in feeling this way?

I've tried to look it up cory, but there doesn't seem to be even any guesses.

I don't agree, if multiculturalism unites then why do people come in to britain but want their own shops places of worship etc? I don't think that is what they want, I think they want the best of both worlds, to leave their own country and turns ours into a mini version of theirs but only with the bits that suit, what happened to when in Rome?

Funny, British people come to Portugal and Spain and demand Fish & Chips, kettles everywhere and mainly want British food. And they're just on holiday!

Monkeyfarm, give up. The mob mentality is in full flow. You are evil and wicked, because you do not have the same Good Intentions and moral superiority that they do!

Is there absolutely no acknowledgement at all, that the decision of New Labour to open the gates (for appalling reasons) has created some problems for social cohesion in Britain? No?

What happens, dear caring MN, when a community that DOES NOT aspire to the same things as you do, get to a critical mass and start running their own parties? Ooooh, like Tower Hamlets, for example. Wait, there is already that party. It's called Respect. Watch, and learn.

'The main shortcoming of democratic societies, is the tyranny of the majority - Alexis de Tocqueville.

I really don't like the party line that is being enforced here. We should be able to identify problems and articulate them, without those problems being denied as part of a wider issue ['multiculturalism is wonderful!!! The EU benefits us!!!!], being accused of racism, being a bigot, etc etc.

Hoar Frost
Very pretty :)

I don't really take any notice of "data" which can read however.

All I know is what I see/hear first hand.

If you choose to ignore data, all you get is a skewed view which will, quite naturally (because you are human), back up your own opinion.
But that's your choice, just don't expect anyone to take you seriously.

I would guess that not many people in those countries that Britain colonised were that keen on being mult-culturised either - take a read of The Scramble for Africa,

I'm not Polish, but can some of the posters tell me why it matters that Poles can be racist? I mean, to how we treat them? Hully, are you saying we should be racist back?

If they want to work and they do so, does it matter why they come?

"I don't really take any notice of "data" which can read however.

All I know is what I see/hear first hand."

That's called anecdotal evidence, and it doesn't really mean anything. For example - my experience is that I have found there is loads of work around at the moment. So who is right? You or me?

GrimmaTheNome Wed 12-Dec-12 13:19:52
">can we at least get past this frankly idiotic misconception that only 45% of people in London are white? IT'S NOT TRUE. It was all a misunderstanding by another charming, articulate, literate bigot on another thread.

Its 45% who are both white and british, isn't it?. So there will be more than 45% white and more than 45% british - this number is the intersection of two larger sets. It doesn't include Poles, Australians etc etc etc on the one hand or second, third ...nth generation non white. Furthermore it presumably doesn't include mixed race so it will exclude many descendents of 'white britons'. There really isn't much grist for the racist mill there."

So in the group of Others we have people like my own dc: born in this country, white (not that I think that is relevant), native speakers of English and thoroughly immersed in English culture, but not identified as White British because their mixed parentage means they tick Other on the questionnaires (there is usually no box for White Mixed). And what a threat to integration they are to be sure.

sieglinde Wed 12-Dec-12 13:34:12
"I'm not Polish, but can some of the posters tell me why it matters that Poles can be racist? I mean, to how we treat them? Hully, are you saying we should be racist back?"

I think these remarks have been made in the context of "my Polish friends can't believe we are so silly as to entertain this multiculturalism foolishness", which is an argument which has been made by several posters on this thread.

Yes someone down the thread posted that her Polish friends couldn't believe we'd be so daft as to let so many people in.
My response to that is that Poland is kind of well known for being racist, so probably not an unbiased view from her
(Nothing to do with wartime contributions, which were magnificent and we shafted Poland unforgivably.)

Sorry, from them.

To those of you who want open borders.

How does that work exactly? If we cannot provide jobs, housing medical care and schooling for everyone who want to come?

We cant just keep building more homes as we are already building on green belt and in areas where we shouldn't.our nhs cant cope now so how will it manage if we add a few more millon people and there are already children without school places and schools having to use temp class rooms. And that is before you bring in the issue of jobs paying a decent wage.

I work in the construction business, as do many of my friends.

Our shop has just had to close due to the fact that we employed a team of very good floor fitters for 20 years and paid them a good wage which of course had to be reflected in our overall pricing.

A shop has just opened across the road and we just cannot match them, they employ all Polish workers, these Polish workers rent a house and live 4 maybe 5 to a room, therefore their living costs are nothing like any of our fitters with homes and families to feed.

This is what is going on everywhere and yes it is a problem.

Sorry, forgot to add that they are able to work for much less, their money is not spent here helping the economy it's sent back to Poland.

cory - yes, exactly.

can'tspel...but we don't seem to be able to provide medical care without immigrants. Or harvest our own food for that matter. If some combination of skills shortages and poor attitude to work has created a void then I'm rather glad to have people willing to fill it.

What are these Polish shopfitters saving on, to allow them to undercut your business so much? It can't just be that they are paying their workers less - unless they are paying them illegally?

then maybe we need to change the attitude to work within this country rather than importing unskilled labour from the eu.

The EU. Root of all evil if you talk to a lot of people. How dare people move freely and mix within it.

Yes, its flawed. Hugely flawed at times. But I don't think immigration is top of that list.

This week the EU got the Nobel Peace Prize. It was right to award it to the EU.

In the last few years I've visited Bosnia (several times) and Serbia. Every so often you'll seen signs up with the EU logo on construction programmes. And when we were in Mostar we saw a bunch of men in senior military uniform which various international flags all wearing the same uniform under the EU banner for some important meeting or other (I think they were EUFOR I think if memory serves me correctly).

It was a very good reminder of how and why free movement and cultural exchange between people is just so important, and I think its something to be proud of.

I generally take the view that, if people have something to contribute and participate - which can be both socially and financially - then thats great. But that can be applied to both 10th Generation British Born Whites or someone born abroad. The problems start when any group deliberately isolates themselves from another one way or another. Communication and inclusion is the key - and thats where multiculturalism is essential and should be encouraged.

The real mistake is believing that in order to do that you have to give something up about your cultural identity. You don't. It just means you should be tolerant of others and be willing to learn to understand them and how they are different from you.

Yes, they are paying them much less and they work practically 24 hours a day. Are they doing things legally, I doubt it.

In that case the immigration is not the problem but the failure to enforce legislation about minimum wages.

What I have heard about lots of manual jobs is that they like using Polish labour not because they are unskilled but because they are highly skilled.

Clippedphoenix

Sorry your shop's closed - that's not nice, especially before Christmas.

However, do you ever buy goods made in China or cheap consumer durables made overseas?

Everyone seems to want the benefits of globalisation and free market capitalism without the downsides. It just doesn't work like that.

Exactly cory.
Aside from the point about them paying people illegally - though to be fair it is a big point - what's the problem if they work 24h a day? It's one way of running a competitive business.

"how I can be in a store feel like I'm in eastern Europe"

But isn't that a richness of experience? Why does it bother you? There are plenty of generic Tesco style shops, I think it is great to have other shops, churches, theatres, restaurants.

My son said to me recently, based on what we'd done that day, "Mum, I have been to France, China, Italy, Japan and Greece in one day and I didn't even have to leave town". I think it is wonderful and don't understand why it is threatening or a problem.

Yes, yes to tolerance. But an absolute no to forcing homogeneity.