to think that I shouldn't have to swallow my principles to save the NHS money?

[Tollund]

I was seen by a practice nurse this morning and prescribed antibiotics for my chest infection. When he wrote the prescription I said that if they were capsules with gelatine in them I couldn't take them and would need the medicine instead. He told me that he didn't know if they did or not and didn't have time to research it, and if I really couldn't bring myself to take them I'd have to ask the pharmacist what they would recommend. I've been here before so I said that they wouldn't prescribe anything and I'd end up having to come back to pick up yet another prescription. He said to go and see what they said but he wouldn't prescribe the medicine as it was more expensive. (I'm guessing he doesn't see a lot of Hindus and not sure how far he'd get suggesting that people should take things containing boiled up connective tissue and bones whether they've spent a lifetime avoiding them or not.)

So I went to the pharmacist and exactly what I had said would happen, happened and I've wasted over an hour trying to get them to liaise amongst themselves so I didn't physically need to run between the surgery and chemist to pick up prescriptions myself. (With a chest infection when it's -2!)

AIBU to think that the practice nurse was being a total arse and that I shouldn't be made to run around wasting time because he "was too busy" and clearly thought I was being stupid for not just taking the gelatine?

A belief does not have to be completely catered for. It should be respected and talked through. The patient should be given all the alternatives if they question things. If the belief can not be catered for, then a best fit compromise should be suggested and the patient left to make the decision in the end. Ultimately a patient has the right to refuse treatment if they aren't happy with the alternatives aren't good enough. But they are in control of the situation and were given support to make that decision thats right for them, rather than bullied into it.

Doctors and nurses having a poor attitude to patients no matter how trivial can deeply impact on the trust a patient has with future encounters with HCPs. They will go into situations in a defensive manner and less open to discussing potentially important information as they think that their concerns will be dismissed as trivial or unimportant.

Why? The terms are set out so there are school breaks every 6-8 weeks(ish) there are also october and summer holidays so I don't get your point there

YABU and cringingly precious. I would imagine in places like India, many Hindus would just be grateful to have access to life saving antibiotics.

Exactly nickel, why not just have them already in veg caps?

exactly, there's no reason why not - food manufacturers can manage to use other substances to make their food veggie, why not pharma?

RedToothbrush - you're dead right, and the attitude of the nurse in the OP's situation was awful - saying she doesn't have time to research it and so the OP has to find out herself and ask them to change the scrip which she knows can't be done (and the nurse knows too!)?
that's awful.

I always ask for tablets/liquid instead of capsules because of the gelatine thing. I also gag on capsules so prefer tablets. Never had any complaints, did once have to mix up suspension myself (easy just add water to powder in bottle).

I would happily pay the difference but if there isn't the system in place I expect thats impossible.

Cos pharmaceutical companies don't have the same pressures of consumer demands as they have almost guaranteed markets and its difficult for patients to push pressure on doctors and hospitals to respect their desires.

You only have to look at the responses to the OP about this particular issue to see how others do not feel she should even be raising the question and should just lump any old shit they are given.

Until people like the practise nurse respect the views of the OP then why should the pharmaceutical companies be remotely interested?

I work as a pharmacist in an area with a high BME population. I can't remember the last time I was asked for a vegetarian (non-gelatin) product. I think there is a general acceptance that for some things you have to compromise.

It is fairly simple and cheap to change some items to a liquid (some, but not all antibiotics included), but for other products the cost difference is in the hundreds of pounds. I remember providing liquids medicines for a patient a few years ago who had had bariatric surgery and her drug costs per month increased from less than £50 per month to over £2K.

You need to consider that as you get older and possibly suffer with a life-limiting long term condition - will you refuse treatment?

As for why they can't make tablets - It is often due to the stability of the drug and manufacturing costs.

I agree with Freddos. The NHS spends a huge amount of it's budget on prescriptions and prescribers are responsible for keeping the cost as low as possible in a climate where budgets are frozen or being cut each year. Prescribing liquid rather than capsules is hugely more expensive and if it's done often enough throughout the country soon adds up to the cost of a course of chemotherapy/ kidney transplant/ neonatal incubator. You have to decide where your priorities lie.

I don't really believe OP really has the strong moral convictions she purports

That's outrageously rude and offensive.

The OP appears to have had a hard time on this thread because people have decided to take against her and vegetarianism as a whole.

I've never seen this vicious attitude towards this/similar issues before. Is MN having a bad day or is a sign of a wider society trend I wonder?

i agree with musttidyplayroom. My sister was chronically ill all her life, which ended when she was really quite young, she was a vegetarian, anti animal testing, anti vivisection etc etc we boycotted proctor and gamble, but she still had to take drugs that were tested on animals uin order to live. I know she felt guilty about it but she had no other choice

felecity I think it's most probably more to do with stretched services, a recession and patient choice tbh. I do understand patient and parental choice, but for us with my daughter it means if you choice a more expensive service/[product you have to shore it up yourself iykwim

oh go that didn't make sense, I meant if you choose a more expensive product or service you have to top it up out of your own pocket, not rely on the nhs to do that. That has happened for years btw, even under labour, it's not something new

I think there will be a time when we have - The NHS offer is ...

And for anything else you will have to pay. The current NHS reforms are only the start.

I saw someone walking down the high street wearing a T-shirt saying "Vegans are just attention-seekers".

Just swallow the bloody pills and stop ya whinging.

the op is a hindu

no, she isn't.

no she's not.

she was using hindus as an example of vegetarians whjo wouldn't be asked to compromise

oh okay

I heard she doesn't wear a bra though and lives with a goat

oh go that didn't make sense, I meant if you choose a more expensive product or service you have to top it up out of your own pocket, not rely on the nhs to do that. That has happened for years btw, even under labour, it's not something new

The OP hasn't said she isn't prepared to pay a top-up fee. Her actual complaint was that the nurse was rude to her and didn't offer her the relevant information/opportunity to pay the difference.

Poor OP. She has effectively been denied a public service because of her belief. I do think that there is a prima facie case of discrimination here with reference to the Equality Act, which covers religion OR belief. Veganism has been held to be a belief which is covered under the Act, so I would imagine vegetarianism is as well. So her clinic would need to show that they could objectively justify their decision on the basis of cost- 20p? And if they did think they could objectively justify it, they should still have looked at mitigation ie saying "Sorry, we"ll write you a private script"

Leave her alone you flamers! YANBU

Vegans and vegetarians are totally different though. Veganism can be classed as a belief, but I don't think vegetarianism can.

You'd be surprised about what has been held to be a belief before eg the belief that carbon emissions should be cut has been held to be a belief worthy of protection. I'd give it a go especially as there is guidance from the NHS saying that vegetarianism probably is a belief.

Yes the main problem for me is that the prescribing nurse abjectly failed in her duty to provide care - he refused to provide or even obtain the information required to get consent to the treatment, almost certainly against the prescribing guidelines of his NHS authority.

He also increased the cost of providing the service much more than the difference in medicine cost as a 2nd appointment is required by his "go and away and find out yourself". So it's not saving money in the slightest.