to have taken my 11 year old son's key away from him?

[amck5700]

Since my eldest started High School in the summer, my youngest son has been allowed to let himself out the house for school and in again in the afternoon. I leave with eldest at 8.35 (youngest leaves for the 200 yard walk to school at 8.50) and then he is in the house from 3.20 until 3.50 when we get home. Apart from 1 lost key (lost in the house, not in the street) it has been going well. He is not allowed anyone in the house or to answer the front door.

Didn't need to pick eldest up today so came straight home, I heard voices and found that my son had his friend in - he was borrowing a book.

Anyway, I was angry (this friend is a bit of a loose cannon) and despite him knowing he is in the wrong here, he is giving the chat back. So I have taken his key from him until further notice which means he will have to leave for school earlier and wait outside until I come home.

He was also not interested in hearing why I was angry. Which was because if the boy is in my house I am responsible for him and I can't be responsible if I am not in the house. My son knows that he can invite friends round from 4pm onwards as I will be in then.

I know I am a control freak,and think I have maybe been over harsh and should maybe give him his key back.

??

My mum did this to me. I brought a friend home without asking so she took the key rights away for a fortnight. It was horrid. I had to wait an hour for her outside the house, it was frigging boring and cold and it rained a few times. I never forgot to ask again though!

I'm in that parallel universe again! Why on earth can't he invite a friend in- you'll be back in 20 minutes. I be he thought he wasn't to let any grown ups in-not his friends.

I'm legally responsible for what happens on my property, so I am being put in a position where I am responsible for someone without my or their parents knowledge. I don't hold 3rd party insurance so if anything happened to the child then they could sue me/report me to the police/social services. However unlikely that may be, I'd rather not take that chance. He has plenty of opportunity to have friends over, can't see that saying no friends for the half hour when he is supposed to do his homework and get changed out his school clothes is much of a hardship.

Santa, if it happens again then I'll take it for a day and see if that brings home the message.

Viva, yes, that's the difference, if their parents know that they are in the house without an adult. Once he is in High school then I'll maybe change the rules - we'll see.

Thanks for your input everyone.

He needs the key but also needs to respect your rules. Maybe you did go OTT but I understand what you're saying about another child in the house and feeling responsible. I'm sure you're worried enough about what could happen in that half hour before you get home without the need to be worrying about someone else's child as well. He should have told his friend to call around after 4pm for the book and not shown his friend that the house is empty at that time until the time you get home (next thing you know he'll be pressurised into bringing more friends home with him!). It is annoying when you are truing to explain things and you just keep getting the backchat - kids aren't reasonable!

I would do exactly what you did op, and I also would not let any other kids in the house while my 11 year old was alone in the house. I'm happy to let my 11 year old be home alone for a short while because I judge him to be responsible. I can't judge anyone else's child. So they're not coming in. It would be a non-negotiable for me. I would also back down about the key thing cos I'm softer than I sound.

you seem very paranoid OP..

they are 11, not 2.. there is far more chance of them having an accident while out playing than in your house

The OP has a right to make that decision and personally I wouldn't allow friends in when I'm not there either, mainly as my ds is such a show off around other kids and would do daft things he wouldn't on his own.

The bottom line is that he broke a rule, it's not up to him at 11 to decide to make it a flexible rule.

Fwiw I think you did the right thing. A short, sharp shock and then done and dusted. He needs to respect the rules of the household. I was a latchkey kid and I knew to obey the household rules or I'd end up waiting in the cold.

There's a big difference between being strict and being cruel and I think the OP seems to have the right balance

Are you sure there's no paid transport option for your eldest? I mention this because DS attends school 9 miles away for similar reasons. I found out that there are private minibus companies that will pick him up at our door & take him to and from each day. They take a tour around the village picking up other passengers on the way.

That's even though he can (and does) take the train. Train is cheapest option. Me driving (efficient small car) would be about the same cost as the private minibus. Me driving big horrible People mover Bus is most expensive option.

FWIW mine don't carry own keys; we have hidden keys in the garden which works best for us. Would not solve your concerns about loose cannon child in house, but means the key cannot be lost.

I think your concerns about being legally responsible for what happens on your property are misplaced. It's not that simple. If you encourage the lad to be there without you present then maybe you could be found culpable (if something went wrong). But if it's a surprise, you did nothing to attract him, then no.

DS had a key to let himself in 3 days a week when he was in Y6 (aged 10/11) He knew he was not allowed to have anyone back till I came in (about half an hour to an hour later) and I once came back to find his mate standing on the doorstep waiting for DS while he changed clothes and they went over to play footy

I would reiterate your rules and reasons why and then make sure he does as asked!

Sorry but even if he does it again and even if he back chats you again

As a parent you have a duty of care towards your own child and leaving him on the doorstep in all weathers for 30 minutes is neglectful.

He broke the rules and needed to know he was in the wrong. I don't think a few days of waiting in the cold would have done him any harm - and he would probably never have done it again!

WorraLorraTurkey

so you wouldn't allow an 11 year old out to play for half an hour in winter?

He spends far longer than half an hour outside on his scooter or bike in most weathers anyway and spends at least that outside at lunch break. When I get home, half the street of much younger children are out and about - I don't think anyone is failing in their duty of care here.

I have repeated the rules to him and will tell him again in the morning. He can have his friend over at 4 any day he wants.

lljkk - I could use a private taxi, but actually I drop him on my way to work and collect him on my way home - it's not that much of a detour so whilst it means he doesn't get to travel independently, it isn't too much of an issue from a practical point of view.

If younger son is not allowed to have a key for any reason in the future, I'll probably just come home and pick him up before going to the High school. It would mean extra petrol, eldest having to wait a short time and also that youngest would still have homework etc to do after dinner, but it's not impossible or that impractical.

I think he enjoyed having a bit of responsibility and trust placed on him - we'll see how it goes. less than 2 weeks left this year and then only until end June and then he'll be at High school anyway.

I think you over reacted way too much.

To my mind, bringing a friend up to my room to borrow and book then let them out is not ye same as having a friend over.

whois - i'm not unconvinced that the book was a ruse - The boys got a new bigger screen tv for their playroom for Christmas but we set it up early as It was a bit difficult to hide and it seemed pointless to have it sitting for 2 weeks unused. I suspect he wanted to show it to his friend and play some computer games - which he isn't supposed to do until he's done his homework and changed.

Are you serious, leaving a child outside for 30 minutes is neglectful? Get a grip. Children hopefully are outside at school for more than 30 minutes during lunch time!

Well the whole of my country is neglectful. In Belgium, children are outside in ALL WEATHERS for 15 minutes in the morning, 1 hour at lunch and 15 minutes again in the afternoon. Then take a look at Scandinavia where children are left outside during school in temperatures well under 0 degrees celsius. Yes we're all neglectful parents for sending our children to school where our children are left outside.

Back to the original subject, no I wouldn't personally have the same rules as the OP. I don't have 3rd party insurance, I do allow my 11 and 14 year olds to have friends around when I am not in and all the parents of guest know where their children are in my house. But these are my rules. OP has her rules, her son broke them, maybe she could be a titchy bit more compromising but only after her son realizes that rules are rules and your mum is ALWAYS right! Bit of course OP is being reasonable, it's her rules!

Yes of course I'd let him out to play.

What I wouldn't do is lock him out of the house in all weathers

That's totally different to him choosing to play out and being able to come in if he wants to.

Not providing care or shelter for a Primary school child if he needs/wants it is neglectful imo.

natation, i agree re the fresh air, what's the saying? there is no such thing as bad weather, only inappropriate clothes! If I had a 14 year old in the house (depending on what they were like) I wouldn't have a problem either. I am trying to give responsibility in small steps, I am hoping by the time the lighter nights are back he will be able to finish up the homework and get changed and out by the time I get home. then it will only be a short while to the holidays and when they are back at school it will no longer be an issue.

They regularly go away to the park - a mile away on their scooters and get a treat at the shops - probably away a good couple of hours and they go to the pool/cinema on their own and with friends. so I am not a complete control freak. I just like to know who is in my house.

Last week I was actually able to go to the supermarket and leave both boys in the house together until my OH came home 30 minutes later. That felt a bit strange but okay.

So you know what the OP's doorstep looks like do you? So you know the OP's son spends 30 minutes there standing completely still? Get real, what would an 11 year old do who knows he has to wait 30 minutes for his mum to come home, he'd walk slowly home, he'd go to a shop, he'd go to a park. Goodness, the OP said her son is temporarily locked out of the house for 30 minutes, nowhere did she state her son had no shelter. Your accusations of neglect are completely without foundation, unless you know the OP personally and know the exact conditions of his lock-out.

....and he isn't actually locked out, he has his key back and actually I think it would be more of a punishment for him to have to come with me on the school run rather than having to wait for me to come home. He knows he can go to to several neighbours if he ever needed to and as Natation says he'd just dawdle home and maybe he'd actually go to the toilet before he left school instead of flying into the house throwing his stuff everywhere in his haste to get to the loo (that's how the key got lost!)

or maybe he'd go to a friends house - hopefully one who's parent was in :o

• he could always sit under the trampoline or squeeze into the shed if he was desperate :)

He's her child natation and a Primary school child at that.

If he has to go to the park to seek shelter or anywhere else for that matter because it's cold or raining and his Mum has deliberately locked him out...that is neglectful imo.

And would it still be a 30 minute car journey if torrential rain or snow fell?

No I doubt it.

Yes well that' my point, he shouldn't be desperate.

Find another punishment if he does it again instead of locking him out.

I think you need to give him a chance. Do you believe he has not done this before?

I totally understand you anxiety about having another child in the house that you don't know about though. At 13, I have only just started allowing my DS to have pals over spontaneously as I presume the pals' parents are OK with it. Not at 11 though. I'd give him another chance and if he abuses your trust then you'll need to send him to an afterschool club or something.

Having a key and being alone at home requires maturity and trust on both sides.

ok so my 11 and 14 year olds are obviously neglected. My 11 and 14 year olds get wet on their way home from school when it rains, sometimes it takes them 30 minutes if the bus or tram doesn't arrive on time. Even worse, my 11 year old has to wait outside in her school playground for sometimes an hour before I come to collect her (that's how the child care after-school service operates here, yes quick snack and it's back outside to play) LOCKED OUT OF HOME because I don't yet trust my 14 year old to look after her at home. All my poor children can get wet and cold on the way home from school, I don't have the financial means to pay for and run a car, yes we sometimes get wet and cold coming home from school, me included.

And finally, what is wrong with going to the park for a bit of shelter?

sorry meant 7 year old waits for me at school OUTSIDE in the playground for me to come and collect her. In that time, she's actually the school's responsibility so the school is neglecting her by allowing her outside, neglecting a total of around 100 children who are in after-school care every day. How terrible, all abandoned children there because their parents work and don't collect them to take them immediately home at 3.30.