To not know what to say?

[permaquandry]

Dd7, sensitive, nicely 'young' for her age asked how you make a baby.

What do I say? She isn't at all worldly wise and she's a bit of a worrier.

I only want to give her the info she can handle but also don't want to lie.

Please don't tell your children that sex is a secret, it sounds like something an abuser would say. You protect your children by arming them with information not keeping them misinformed.

"In our house:
Mummy and daddy do a special kiss-and the kids aren't allowed to know about the kiss until they're 18. It's a secret.
The dr tells us when the baby will be ready to come out
Mummy has tummy ache when baby is too big to stay in tum.
Go to the hospital. Dr gives mummy medicine to make me sleep. Dr takes baby out-but I don't know how."

What a load of old balls - and for what purpose??

I'm starting to wonder if maybe I give too much honest info now! I've steered clear of Mummy's & Daddy's who are married/love each other kind of talk because I don't think that represents the truth.

I did tell him that I think it's probably better when two people love each other but that sometimes adults have sex just because they enjoy it, and they may not love each or have any intention of making babies... That was how we moved onto contraception & unplanned pregnancy. The things I made really clear are that it is only for adults to do with each other & that both parties must want to.

Some of his friends parents aren't together or he has friends who have never met their dads, so I was trying not to confuse him by making out that sex, marriage & the desire to 'make babies' are always linked together. There are all sorts of combinations that overlap! Also, he knows that gay couples can't get each other pregnant - again, this is because he asked, not because I was trying to bombard him with information.

I suppose that depends on individual moral judgements though & what you want your children to believe. I also know that my DS can take in complex ideas & have a good discussion about them - and that if there are any inconsistencies in my answers he will come back & question me about them anyway. I think it's just about being as honest as possible when they start asking questions. When it comes to the emotional side of things I do explain that I'm giving my opinion but that he might grow up to think differently or meet others with different opinions.

I think you're going to get yourself in far more of a muddle if you tell her some half baked nonsense about special cuddles (which in time you have to retract when she finally is in your view old enough) than if you are just honest.

For goodness' sake, just tell her. And if you can't face telling her, buy her a copy of Mummy Laid An Egg by Babette Cole. I really don't see all the need for all this twee stuff about special cuddles.

Some of these do border on ridiculous.

Personally my DC's have asked at various ages and there is always a way to handle the truth age appropriately, so being 3, 7 or 15 wouldn't matter.

At 3 it would be basic (eggs, sperm and tummy) building on that as the children get older and know more about their own anatomy. You can cover the emotions and the physical act without the mollycoddling, so it's not like the children who aren't told about 'special cuddles' are missing the emotions of relationships either.

Why lie though - surely that will confuse children even more in the long run? Especially when they either find out the truth on their own, or you have to own up that you lied in the first place.

I've not mentioned 'special cuddles', it is not something I have said or will say, as I said in my original post I don't want to lie but don't want to confuse her.

If I felt I could use all the correct anatomy and explain the facts of life, I would, perhaps most 7 yr old could handle this info, however I have reason to believe that my dd would not be able to or it may upset/confuse her which is why I asked for help with some sort if 'middle ground' explanation.

Ok then. Tell her what I told my three year old. Babies grow inside their mummy's tummies. Daddy puts a seed in mummys front bottom and it meets an egg inside and ut starts to grow into a baby. They come out through the front bottom, or sometimes as in my case that isn't possible so they have an operation and the baby is lifted out of a cut which gets stitched up again.

Since then (he's five) he has learned a front bottom is called a vagina and the seed comes out of daddy's penis. And this is something for grown ups only.

Interesting discussion.

I was very matter-of-fact about how the baby got out. Special hole that opens up when it's time for the baby to come, baby comes out, hole closes back up (ds1 said "oh is that next to your wee hole Mummy?" )

But I was more cautious about explaining how the baby got in. He was only little at the time (3 or 4) and he hasn't asked since. At the time I felt that "special kind of cuddle that mums and dads do" was age appropriate and not a lie (I'm curious that some posters feel it's lying - why?) There was no talk of secrets. He's 8 now and as and when he asks again (or before they go into more detail at school, whichever comes sooner) I will go into more detail obviously.

I don't think that accurate words should confuse or worry her, but if you have used other words before (or not mentioned them in any words) then it's worth explaining using both words until she learns them. But the important thing I think is to revisit the discussion often - they won't take in more than they can cope with in one go and there is no benefit in sitting them down for a complete explanation. But if you deal with each issue as it comes up - whether that's a direct question, or clearing up when she seems to have misunderstood smething, or commenting about issues as they arise in other conversations, then her understanding will gradually develop.

I'm not quite sure why you think she would be worried or upset about learning these things - my DS was a sensitive little soul, but a simple explanation didn't cause him the slightest upset. Personally, I knew the basics from the age of 3 when my little brother was on the way and I wanted to know how. I was also a sensitive "worrier" of a child, but simply accepted the information as no different from how anything else happened, because it was explained as "no big deal".

dew and perma i didnt mean to imply that special cuddles were a bad thing, more it was one poster who was OTT and i would avoid approaching it in that manner (cant remember the poster). I think as long as the DC is comfortable with the basics it can progress from there. That isnt a lie, just telling the facts slowly so that the children can digest the information in their own time and ask any questions when they are ready to do so.

My mum told me that mummies go to the doctor and get an injection that makes them pregnant. I believed her, she was my mum why would she lie?

When I found out the truth via playground rumour and eventually sex ed I realised she had lied and never asked her about anything to do with sex, periods or anything because I couldn't rely on her to tell me the truth.

If you tell them a 'white lie' they will believe it because you are their parent. When I am asked by ds not that I'm looking forward to it! he will be told the truth, in simple terms he can understand and make sense of but nothing but the truth.

And yes, I have worked with children who have experienced sexual abuse and special secret cuddles gives me shivers.

My mum told me that mummies go to the doctor and get an injection that makes them pregnant. I believed her, she was my mum why would she lie?

When I found out the truth via playground rumour and eventually sex ed I realised she had lied and never asked her about anything to do with sex, periods or anything because I couldn't rely on her to tell me the truth.

If you tell them a 'white lie' they will believe it because you are their parent. When I am asked by ds not that I'm looking forward to it! he will be told the truth, in simple terms he can understand and make sense of but nothing but the truth.

And yes, I have worked with children who have experienced sexual abuse and special secret cuddles gives me shivers.

You need How Babies Are Made, a lovely 70's book I inherited from my older sibs.
Google it.
FWIW, when ds first asked me aged 4 I said something like:

The man puts his willy in the woman's Ladybits (I know I know but that's what he called it) and after a while a seed comes out of the mans willy.
The woman has an tiny egg inside her, and when the seed meets the egg it joins together and that's the beginning of a baby.
The baby grows inside the woman for 9 months, making her tummy really big, and then, when it is ready to come out, the woman pushes the baby (like doing a giant poo) out of her very stretchy ladybits.
Ta-da!
He has asked me things about it since, and I always basically stick to the facts.
He is totally untroubled by it, as I was at 3 or 4 when I learned about it.
The younger they know, the better imo.

It's just biology people. (OK i know Ladybits is not a biological term..) but essentially, you are teaching them what all mammals do. And we are just mammals. It doesn't have to be weird.

festive i like your post, but I absolutely disagree with this bit;

I suppose that depends on individual moral judgements though & what you want your children to believe

It should have nothing to do with moral judgement or what a person wants their children to believe. It is biology and it is fact

I agree with the poster who said that you protect your children by arming them with information. Why would you make up crap about something this fundamental and important?

takataka - I meant the moral judgement bit more in response to the "love and marriage" side of things. For example, my MIL in law really believes marriage should come before babies (she actually cried when I was pregnant with our first because we weren't married then ) and I think this is because of her Catholic beliefs - so I'm guessing someone like her would want to really focus on marriage as part of "the talk". Whereas I don't really have any fixed religious beliefs so that part isn't relevant to me.

I agree on the basic biology facts though - that's not a subjective topic

Mummy and daddy do a special kiss-and the kids aren't allowed to know about the kiss until they're 18. It's a secret.
The dr tells us when the baby will be ready to come out
Mummy has tummy ache when baby is too big to stay in tum.
Go to the hospital. Dr gives mummy medicine to make me sleep. Dr takes baby out-but I don't know how

Unbelievable load of utter bullshit.

I asked my mum - she was terribly embarrassed and fudged the issue. I never asked her again. I could tell she wasn't being honest. My DS is 4 and knows that babies come from a seed and an egg and grow in mummies tummies. When he asks how the seed gets in, or the baby gets out, I will tell him. That way, I hope that he will continue to see me as a source of factual information, and a person he can ask for advice on any matter related to sex or relationships. Not a person who makes up silly stories about special cuddles.

And 'special cuddles' does sound exactly like the type of thing an abuser would say.

Also don't agree with all the mummy and daddies who love each other etc. Ds knows I love him, but that I never loved his dad and was never in a relationship with him. This all ties in with him knowing he doesn't see daddy because he did things like get drunk while he he was looking after him. I told him this when he was old enough to understand the words, age about five. Why do people bullshit kids? Lies are always worse than the truth.

festive i think you are in dangerous territory if you are discussing those 2 (very seperate in my eyes) subjects in the same conversation, with children

sex and biology, pregnancy, contraception, boundaries = 1 conversation

sex, marriage, morals, religion = another conversation

conversation 2 is subjective and confusing. Conversation 1 needs to be heard loud and clear, with no confusion

My friend told her eldest when he was six, in an age appropriate way. At the end of the explanation he burst out laughing and said "you're pulling my leg".
He was the eldest of four.

I had The Conversation with 8 year old DS recently (I had to give DD the talk years ago, I thought this one would be down to DH Actually, probably better it's not).
I was trying to be as factual as possible whilst not going into unnecessary detail.
It started to come undone a bit when he started to smirk and then laugh.

The conversation started when he got out of the shower and he asked what testicles are actually for. Sex has obviously been discussed in the playground because his understanding was that two adults kiss and the seeds come "shooting out of the man's mouth and into the woman's". 'Twas definitely time for a chat.

Crying with laughter at "dd wanted to know why I had eaten a baby", golemmings

I'm not sure why sex should upset her. I think that it's often easier to tell children things in a straightforward wsy than we think it will be.

Graphic detail isn't necessary, but neither is guff