I wince when women refer to being a mum as "a job"

[CQuin]

It's so mimsy ish, so martyr and yet at the same time.

Our parents would never have said this, is it just the heightened expectations everyone has for everything thee days ?
Would dads say this?

Eg I have two jobs, I'm a mother (or worse "mummy ") and a hat maker." (or whatever )

Fuck off.

I can't take credit for the points Drizzle. I agree this is a bit like the "who is more tired game" couples play. No one wins, everyone feels hard done to, and the resentment builds.

I think its time to flounce. Mumsnet really is a pile of shite at the moment. So many thickos I might top myself. Bye.

No it's not a job, it's a state or being, even a title. Not a job though, as there is no contract, no pay and it's for life.

Is your partner your boss? When he guves you money do you genuinely consider it your pay? How about tax then? do you actually sleep with your boss then? If you genuinely feel so, your relationship has some serious power problems.

It's wrong to equate it in any way with volunteer work as that one implies the volunteer does for free what was meant to be paid. Whereas parenthood works in the exact opposite way - it's free and whomever substitutes that care that is not a parent or relative gets paid.

Because if its your job to be a mum then how about being an uncle, or a grandaughter or a niece. Is that your second job?

It's a relationship, love is meant to be what's driving it and not a contractual starting point, the way a job does.

Sadly, I think the reason some women insist in calling it a job is plain insecurity, as they don't like to be thought as idle.

For the record, I have no issues with SAHMs, it's bloody hard work, but "full time mummy" makes my teeth itch.

Why does it all have to be so dreadfully hard? I had a job. A senior, well-paid job. I loved it, but it had it's crap bits. I decided to stay at home because I wanted to spend time with DS. I didn't do it because it was harder or easier than work or because I thought it was developmentally essential. I just wanted to. Just like work, I love it but it has its crap bits. I get to go for coffee, DS is quite happy to do that. I got to go for coffee when I worked too. At work people rarely followed me into the toilet and handed me toilet paper, but then DS rarely writes to the paper to complain about my decisions. Meh. It's all good, why the competitive misery?

Nah, Autumnlights lol! Not my true colours at all. Just a very tongue in cheek homage to the usual SAHM/WOHM arguments. But there was always going to be someone who failed to see the heavy sarcasm!

Forgot to mention that was in response to Autumnlights post at 14:48. I realise the discussion may have moved on since then. Or then again, maybe not!

but then DS rarely writes to the paper to complain about my decisions

soloman

Nellycats, great argument.

Goldenbear, choosing between two things, even if neither is particularly appealing, is still making a choice. So if you had other options available, yes you were fortunate to have been in a position to chose. No doubt there are parents who would both have to work to afford that same one-bed flat. The decision was still what you considered best for your family, overall. Otherwise you'd have done something different.

Goldenbear (WRT your 17:52 post).

It isn't where you holiday that makes it dull! It is what you do, or don't do.

I really have no clue as to what your problem is. I have said twice (make that three times now) that I am talking about my experience. I can assure you that I holiday in perfectly lovely and extremely interesting places. But even if I didn't, why would a dull holiday location mean I wouldn't have any rest? What a bizarre concept!

And, no, I meant holiday - a day when I am exempt from work. If I had meant a vacation that is what I would have said.

When I work, I am doing part time parenting.

I am paying someone else to look after my 2 year old child because me and my DP are working and not available to do full time parenting.

On weeks when I have no work and can look after ds all the time, I am obviously - OBVIOUSLY - doing MORE parenting than when I am working.

When I am working ft and DP is doing full time care of DS, he is doing more parenting than I am.

As a self employed working parent, I understand completely that this is the deal.

You can say you are a full time parent while you are working full time if you like. But we are doing part time parenting.

That might be because working parents have no choice but to work, to earn enough to keep the family going - or because we get a huge satisfaction and validation out of our work, a sense of identity and achievement etc etc - or because long term our careers won't continue if we take too much time off when the children are small. Whatever.

But working, for either parent, DOES involve part time parenting. It has to.

PS this thread was getting me down, with the endless 'women ripping into each other' posts -

But then someone compared 'full time mum' to 'half caste' and 'backward, in terms of it being an offensive term, and I ROARED with laughter. Made me realise how little of this I needed to take seriously.

Being a parent is a relationship. Who here would describe themselves as an 'part-time wife', 'full-time brother' or 'occasional grandchild'? Whether you stay at home all week with your children, whether you work away during the day or perhaps overseas for months at a time - you are always a parent.

If you're a good parent, then presumably you're doing whatever you do because you genuinely believe it's in the family's best interest. So if you're working to feed and clothe your kids, or to model that adults can combine family with achieving career goals, or doing a job which contributes to society, or finding alternative care for them because it stimulates them - then that's being a good parent. If you stay at home and give it your all because you believe it offers similar benefits - then that's being a good parent.

Neither scenario means you are a better parent, nor does it necessarily mean you are putting in less time or attention on your children.

Disagree with Nelly - it is a job. A job which requires you to be there doing certain stuff but unfortunately unpaid. I didn't float around in a 'motherly' state of being half the time smiling and wafting a duster (or going for coffee) then work hard in a 'motherly' role washing up, seeing to DCs, no it was a job with long hours and loads of effort especialy as DH abroad alot. A job I did coscientiously.
Mother, uncle are nouns I think. mothering is a verb.
Full time mummies imv are dedicated and whisk little Bodened DCs between ballet and bridge lessons, lacrosse and whatever whilst the au pair cleans the house. Good on them, they're happy, Dcs are happy that's what counts.

Quite right, fenix

Drizzlecake, if its a job, can the "boss" fire you if you're not performing well?

I'm not in any way underestimating what hard work being a SAHM is. During maternity leave I lied being with my baby but there was no respite, my sleep was a joke, adult conversations distant dream and the housework never ending.

As a freelancer I get worst of all words: work during school ours, pick the eldest from school, feed/entertain/breastfeed baby to sleep and then continue working through the night. But that job pays the bills and requires me to be performing in a certain way, or my clients will fire me.

My children cannot fire me, unless I act in a criminal way. Thank goodness, my children nor my husband pay me - that detail makes all the difference

my phone is an idiot! During maternity leave I LOVED not I lied...

If you're a good parent, then presumably you're doing whatever you do because you genuinely believe it's in the family's best interest. So if you're working to feed and clothe your kids, or to model that adults can combine family with achieving career goals, or doing a job which contributes to society, or finding alternative care for them because it stimulates them - then that's being a good parent YES YES
If you stay at home and give it your all because you believe it offers similar benefits - then that's being a good parent YES YES

Neither scenario means you are a better parent YES YES
nor does it necessarily mean you are putting in less time or attention on your children - I won't state the obvious, the blinkers are firmly fixed!

My son tried to fire me one time. Can't even remember what it was about now, but he was in a mardy about something or other. He went upstairs for a couple of minutes and then pushed a note under the door that read 'Your dumpt'.

I would say there are many jobs which bad performers don't get fired from.

So your partner/husband is indeed your boss?

*OP - You are right. Being a SAHM is not a job because jobs take only about 8 hours per day, with a lunch break, and you don't have to work at your job over the weekends.

Being a SAHM is more like slavery. 24/7, no breaks, no days off.*

I work around 12 hours a day. I don't get a lunch break. I do work at home most weekends.

I get up with my DS at 5am. I feed him, wash him, change him, play with him, then go to work. Then I come home, play with him, feed him, give him his bath, read to him and put him to bed. Then, when he is asleep I do some more work.

At weekends I still get up at 5am but spend all day with him. I work when he has his naps. Ditto a "day off" from work. If we go away on holiday I do exactly the same thing in a different place (but a bit less work - maybe just e-mails).

I'm not complaining

I just don't get this idea that WOHMs get "breaks" and "days off" but SAHMs dont. That (saying being a SAHM is "like slavery" to quote a poster upthread) is the sort whiney, martyish bullshit that gets people's backs up.

None of us get "days off" or "breaks" from being parents. If a WOHM gets a day off from work they generally spend it being a SAHM. A SAHM probably would find a day at the office and being able to pee in peace a refreshing change. Short term.

You can't say one "lot" has it harder than the other. People have different levels of job, put in different levels of effort to raising their children be they working or at home. Some people have 1 child, have 6, some have loads of support, some have none. Everyone's circumstances are different

But none of us get a "day off" from being a mother.

And being a mother isn't a job. It's a fucking privelege. However you chose to do it.

Yes fenix, agree it is a relationship

Applauds catgirl

Drizzlecake, you're assuming all parents who SAH bestow copious amounts of love, care and attention on their children. Sadly, not the case. WOHP can also let their children down like this. So it's erroneous to assume that all SAHP devote more time to their children - and that's before we even go on to compare varied situations, e.g. a SAHP with school-aged children or teenagers, or a WAHM parent who burns the midnight oil.