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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

I wince when women refer to being a mum as "a job"

501 replies

CQuin · 04/12/2012 17:02

It's so mimsy ish, so martyr and yet at the same time.

Our parents would never have said this, is it just the heightened expectations everyone has for everything thee days ?
Would dads say this?

Eg I have two jobs, I'm a mother (or worse "mummy ") and a hat maker." (or whatever )

Fuck off.

OP posts:
takataka · 05/12/2012 10:25

aardvark a lot of the helpers at our school, work too Confused

TwinklingWonderland · 05/12/2012 10:25

Yanbu. Being a parent isn't a job, its a life choice. I don't expect anyone else to pay me for this or give me a medal. I work less hours in my job now I'm a mother because I'd like to spend more family time. Childfree people have to do housework too, not just parents!

ArtfulAardvark · 05/12/2012 10:25

Dromedary - I think anyone in your scenario 2 with a ready, willing and available source of childcare would chose to go out to work at least part time, I certainly know I would.

Those of us who had jobs rather than careers, without the marvel that is free family childcare would struggle to balance the books if we had to pay for it all.

Am a bit nonplussed that being a SAHM would make someone dreary, I know plenty of WOH and SAHM who are dreary, a career isnt what makes you an interesting person is it? Sense of humour, interests, travel are things which make a person interesting and are not the sole domain of the employed.

PerryCombover · 05/12/2012 10:26

If it doesn't have a salary it isn't a job

PrettyHairClips · 05/12/2012 10:26

Dromedary - how does having other SAHM friends, make it a 'doddle'?

ArtfulAardvark · 05/12/2012 10:31

takataka - they dont round here it was primarily SAHP, generally with children in reception to year 2 - by year 2 generally they have gone back to work or got a job in the school.

I have to say I would not have referred to it as a job but when you have that "mine is bigger than yours" conversation and people ask what you do I dont know how you are meant to answer it if you dont work at all (not really been in that situation as I WAH)

Its just so damn rude to base your entire assessment on a persons worth or interest on what they do for a living.

Goldenbear · 05/12/2012 10:32

Well I wouldn't want to be called lazy in any capacity so I personally would be offended by someone saying that to me. The fact is when someone uses the word, 'job' an inherent effort is implied, when someone uses the word 'lifestyle' or even just 'mother' they are fairly abstract notions that give no credit to the additional practical efforts involved, even if that is very much the case. That is why context is so important, redskyatnight might consider being a SAHM very much a holiday with children at school all day and just the cooking/cleaning to do. I have a 20 month toddler at home in the day. I have to provide the activities for her. I do the school run for my other DC and I literally do everything else around the home. My DP gets in at 9.30 4 nights a week, sometimes later - last night it was 10.30. He goes into work one day at the weekend to catch up. I do all the domestic chores. I am sure a lot of people in the world do a lot more than me but I'm not lazy. I never was in an employed capacity and im not in this capacity!

whiteandyelloworchid · 05/12/2012 10:34

tantrums what i mean is people need to stop getting their knickers in atwist abotu what others choose to do, or have to do.

i don't think for one minute sahm are lazy at all, i think they are doing an extremely worthwhile job, raising the next generation

equally i think a wohm, is also working hard, and doing what she feels is best for their family

ive never met anyone that i don't think is doing what they feel is best for their family and i think thats the most important thing

but in terms of people getting offended about other people callign sahms full time mums its just silly as stay at home mum is not even what most sahms do, there not even at home that much the ones i know, they are off popping rouund the shops, or going to the library, or toddler groups,going to the park, or meeting with friends fo coffee and taking the children swimming etc
so really they are certainly not stop at home people, as that makes it sound liek they don't leave the house
so really fulltime mum, describes what they do with their day best
that why its the term used in real life

and i agree a lazy person is a lazy person whatever they do,you could geta lazy person at work who is always slacking, and a lazy person at home with children, yet they are lazy because they are lazy
not because of they are a sahm or wohm

takataka · 05/12/2012 10:38

callign sahms full time mums its just silly as stay at home mum is not even what most sahms do, there not even at home that much the ones i know, they are off popping rouund the shops, or going to the library, or toddler groups,going to the park, or meeting with friends fo coffee and taking the children swimming etc

Grin white

TantrumsAndBalloons · 05/12/2012 10:43

Stay at home=does not go out to work

Not never leaves the house.

ArtfulAardvark · 05/12/2012 10:44

Jeez I'm an antisocial person I found all that baby club, coffee morning sh*t draining in the extreme but it was a necessary evil for my child to socialise with other children. I'd much rather be sat in a quiet office fiddling with an excel spreadsheet and getting paid for it.

I guess if you are a social animal then you may see it as a breeze, personally glad to see the back of all that.

whiteandyelloworchid · 05/12/2012 10:45

yes but saying stay at home parent, makes it sound like what they do, stay at home all day, when they don't, they are off doing the above

not the ones i know anyway

MarshaBrady · 05/12/2012 10:51

All are dreary. I just go with I have two children. Do you work usually said in response, yes no.

The term sahm only works on here. I don't hear stay at home in rl.

Jins · 05/12/2012 10:51

I hear stay at home mum in real life quite often. On the other hand I never hear full time mum.

ArtfulAardvark · 05/12/2012 10:53

I know what you are saying yellow, not all SAHMs are sat on the sofa all day watching tv and eating pringles Grin

There are plusses and minuses to being a stay at home parent and to being a working parent - I dont see why its necessary to align yourself into one camp and make a judgement on the validity of the other persons decision.

Women have gone from a situation where historically they were told by men that they have to stay at home and be good wives and mothers to a situation now where they are judged and told by men and other women that they have no validity if they choose to do that.

takataka · 05/12/2012 10:54

white the OP is about whether being a SAHM is 'work' as in 'a job'...i love that you reeled off that list of activities in defence of that...as in;

'how very dare you? I dont stay in the house all day, I have this to do!'

specialknickers · 05/12/2012 10:54

"Try doing it every day and see if it's so invigorating" I'd bloody love to! Could you just mind DS (he's three, but he's lovely honest) for 12 hours a day for me whilst I do? I've got a bit of a long commute (2.5 hours each way) and so if he's sick or something, you're kind of on your own, but that won't be a problem will it? I mean, it's not as if looking after children is hard, like a job or anything is it? Oh, by the way, I can't acually pay you. And if you could pop a bit of washing on and put the hoover round, that would be great ta.

And OP if you're reading I know lots (well, three) full time dads too and you're damn right they call it a job. Probably never worked so hard in their lives.

takataka · 05/12/2012 10:57

no-one is saying that SAHMing isnt a valid choice ardvark...not on this thread. Just that it is not 'a job'

Jins · 05/12/2012 11:00

But how many working mums really do judge stay at home mums. I've never come across it in real life. I've certainly never come across anyone that considers a SAHM to have no validity. There's a lot of offence taken on MN but a lot of that is because the opinions get so polarised that hurtful comments are bound to be posted. I just don't believe that the OP or anyone else for that matter actually cares enough to wince about this. If she's got the time to do that then she's underemployed one way or another :)

Sometimes people take offence where none is meant. Everyone should have confidence in their decisions (you can't always call it choice because family finances dictate so much)

takataka · 05/12/2012 11:01

"Try doing it every day and see if it's so invigorating" I'd bloody love to! Could you just mind DS (he's three, but he's lovely honest) for 12 hours a day for me whilst I do? I've got a bit of a long commute (2.5 hours each way) and so if he's sick or something, you're kind of on your own, but that won't be a problem will it? I mean, it's not as if looking after children is hard, like a job or anything is it? Oh, by the way, I can't acually pay you. And if you could pop a bit of washing on and put the hoover round, that would be great ta.

well yep, that is about the size of it for WOHMs isnt it? Confused

It isnt generally the 'job' which WOHMs find hard..it is the logistics and the balancing, and managing sicknesses etc

ArtfulAardvark · 05/12/2012 11:02

Im not saying I never get my judgey pants on about the Monday to Friday drop the children off at 7am, pick them back up at 7pm parents who dont even spend time with their offspring on the weekends.

I then give myself a serious kicking and tell myself its none of my business

a) I dont know their motivation they may need the money and b) if it works for them I have no right to judge them and project my values on someone elses life.

TantrumsAndBalloons · 05/12/2012 11:02

well special thats the reality of working full time. Sorting out childcare, sick children, commuting then coming home and doing everything else. Cleaning, laundry, dinner, homework, admin, everything.
I have never once said looking after children all day is easy, or that SAHP are lazy or anything like that.
But working 45 hours a week, sorting out 3 children, and a house etc is not "invigorating" and just an opppourtunity to have a coffee in peace either.

takataka · 05/12/2012 11:04

on the days i work I have to get up at 6am to get 2 children to different childcare settings and myself into work by 9am. I dont go to bed until 12am because I have the kids homework, dinner, cleaning, washing up, washing, packed lunches blah blah...

for me it is worth the effort as I am part time and like I said I enjoy the contrats. But, full time is another matter

whiteandyelloworchid · 05/12/2012 11:16

takataka, i'm not saying it in a how very dare you kinda wayGrin

i'm just saying that sahm, isn't a very good describing term when these people are not even at home most of the time

and that, thats why fulltime parent describes what they do more than sahp

whiteandyelloworchid · 05/12/2012 11:16

anyway i'm off now