To think a 7/8 year old should not be alone with a 3/4 year old in a park, does not matter what country you live in.

[goodiegoodieyumyum]

Just been to our local park there was a little girl about 7 or eight with a 3 or 4 year old without any parents to be seen.

Now I live in the Netherlands so I know that parents allow there children more freedom than other places, but the park has really steep concrete stairs with no hand rail and there were older children running around her who twice tried to barrel into me and my one year old ds.

I was the only adult there so what would the 7 year old do if either of them hurt themselves. I suppose she may have a mobile phone but last year the slide collapsed and the air ambulance was called so I just can't understand why a parent would allow this.

I certainly went to school and out to play at 7 if not before! My 4 year old brother played out in our cul-de-sac, I was there but not actually playing with him (I was 10). Yes it was the 70's, there was less traffic, but can't see any difference otherwise.

YABU. When i was 5 we had to walk to the bus and the get the bus to school by ourselves and the same home. I used to take my 2 year old sister to the park when i was 8. It depends on the child.

Well maybe my experience is coloured somewhat by the fact that when I was 19 I saw a much child 13 or 14 and her brother on the bus, about to get of the bus and cross a very, very busy road the girl said to her brother don't cross the road until I get off the bus and can hold your hand. What does the boy do, he runs across the road and is hit by a car and dies, legally the bus had to wait for the ambulance and police to arrive so I got to see the mother whose house was across the road run out and scream and hold her dead son. The poor girl has probably never gotten over it and would always feel some guilt as would any child in charge of a younger sibling would if something happened to them.

I suppose my point is even the most responsible child cannot always stop a younger one doing something stupid whether that be on a playground or on a bus and I suppose you could say the same about adults but there is a difference.

But while that's an awful thing to have happened, it's totally different... I'd think nothing of letting a sensible 13/14 year old take a younger sibling to a park, or supervise them crossing a road, and in any case the park you mention doesn't sound like it was near a road.

What would bother me is the fact that in an emergency a younger child say 8 or so would be more likely to panic and not respond appropriately/calmly, because they don't have the maturity to do so. But then if there were likely to be adults around in general then perhaps that isn't an issue as such.

I think 5 is too young to walk to school independently especiallupy if it's some distance crossing busy roads, I personally would rather nt gamble with my chids life for te sake of 'independence!. They have the rest of their lives, what's wrong with eating a few years more!

In answer to op statement, I certainly wuld not. It's like te blind leading the blind. You wuld not leave tem home alone, why would you do it outside. I was in the park one summer and a group of 7/8 were with a 3/4 year old boy. They lost him, teir is a bug lake early they were frantic. They eventually foun him, bu why take the risk

Ment tey lost him, there was. Big lake nearby

Well, I was often out in the street unsupervised with slightly older siblings at 4, and when I lived on an estate it was common to see 4 yr olds with 7/8 year olds playing out...
BUT when people wax lyrical about the freedom kids had in the 70's and 80's I think sometimes they forget a couple of things.

Firstly, it depends on what kind of area you live in. On the estate I saw two 7 yr old girls about to take a 3/4 yr old accross a very busy road. I asked them to take him down to the crossing, and they said they would, and then ran with him accross 2 lanes of mental traffic, nearly causing a horrific accident.

Secondly, bad things did happen back then. I had several near misses with dodgy strangers/ getting lost/being abandoned by older sibs who ere supposedly "looking after me".

Thirdly, the traffic now, and the way people drive is very different.
Also cars are getting much bigger and higher, so people not only are not expecting to see small children, but they actually cant see them at all because the children are much lower than their rear window.

I think letting a very young child be looked after in a park by a 7 yr old is daft.
I would let ds walk to school on his on at maybe 9, if we lived nearer the school. Many of his friends older siblings do, but out like that at 3? No way.

You'll get flamed for it, OP, but I completely agree. I don't 'get' this theory that playing out is a must for good development. Young children have plenty of time to become more independent.

April Jones was playing out unsupervised. Very sadly, she's no longer with us

I wouldn't let a 7/8 year old out alone anyway let alone looking after another child.

I don't actually see why I would need to send my 7 year old out for milk just up the road, there is no need for them to be so independent that young. My DCs are independent in the things that are important for their age but I think there are other things that can wait.

Christ I struggle with letting a 26 yo take my youngest to the park

Actually the 26 yo is probably less trustworthy than the 13 yo less reliable and far to dramatic to do anything sensible

in Switzerland 5-year olds are expected to walk to school by themselves.

We did in the Uk 35 years ago. We - well I don't - but it is common to bubble wrap and helicopter children now a days.

When I'm looking after my DP's dog, I take him a walk round the field & throw the ball, leaving 7 & 3 y old DDs in the playground. Usually with a number of other kids & parents they know but I don't ask anyone to look out for them specifically. Also in the summer after school they are allowed to go off down the bottom of the field with other kids from school instead of staying in the playground. DD1 is instructed to look after DD2 and they are not to separate, & they have to tell me where they are going.

I started school in 1980, sometimes I walked to school on my own with a friend from being about 9, I wasn't allowed before then. There are quite legitimate fears about traffic in the UK. We compare poorly with most of Europe in respect of child pedestrian safety. Until the roads are made safer for pedestrians you are unlikely to see many 7 & 3 y olds in a park on their own, where there are busy roads to cross to get to it. Please don't patronise UK parents either, most of us are able to make sensible decisions about the safety of our children based on real risks.

Why would my 5 year old walk to school on her own when I'm there to do that . I was walked to,school until I was 10 back in the day, I am an independent self sufficient adult I like to think.

I agree, I think there's no rush to do anything. They mostly need to be able to go to school independently in Y7, so it's a good idea if they have some practice before then, but they don't need to learn all that at 5.

My DH and i are considerably older than hobbitation. I was properly parented and was taken to school every day, as were virtually all the other children at my school. My DH's parents had no interest in him and he did walk to school alone aged 5. He does not have fond memories of it.
Additionally the roads are much busier now in the UK than they were 30/40 years ago.
Small children need an adult around them, not least to take an interest and engage with school.

Your poor DH, Loshad It's horrible that independence was forced on him. I remember the thrill of being allowed to go to a shop on my own when I was 8. In fact, my mum had watched me all the way, though I didn't know that until recently. That's how it should be, a gradual process towards independence & real risks taken into account.

yes Hobbitation, he can hardly talk about it now, nearly 50 years later
He is very protective of our own kids as a result.

That's interesting loshad. My parents were nice in most ways, but very lax, and I was walking home from school nearly a mile at 6. I wasn't really ready imo.my friends mum was pretty bad in that she would send my friend out all day with a jam butty and 10 p to call home in case she got lost! Consequently my friend is quite overprotective of her kids.
it seems to me that school parents I know now who are very laissez faire with their kids are very middle class and had lovely childhoods. They dont have memories of being stuck in glass strewn playgrounds, avoiding glue bags ! (ah, the 80s !)

My youngest is 7.I pull up about 100 yds from the gate.She gets out and I sit in the car and watch her walk along the pavement,open the gate and disappear in to the playground. Then drive off (it's a very old building with no vehicle access so I don't worry about cars) and they go straight into the classrooms in the morning (not like other schools wherer they wait in the playground and line up when the bell goes) She loves the independance and says it makes her feel more grown up than the 9 and 10 yr olds whose mummys take them to the classroom door every morning

My almost 9yo takes my 5yo to the park unsupervised.

It is literally 30 seconds away from my house. They have to check in every 15 minutes.

If one of them hurts themselves the other one has to come and get me and I will be with them within 90 seconds. Although they've been doing it since summer and have never had an accident. A few bumps and grazes but they normally just look after each other. Dd1 has even gone to the shop (also 30 seconds away but in the other direction) to get a plaster and a lolly for dd2, from her own pocket money after she grazed her knee. Dd2 waited on our doorstep because she is not allowed to the shop.

What is wrong with letting children go out and play?

I live somewhere it's still usual for children to 'play out'... But it's less usual than it was 20 years ago, when I first moved here. I have been in the same house for all that time, so I can see clear changes:

20 years ago, our street was full of children - toddlers to teens. Children walked alone or with friends to the village school from the age of about 6. Pairs or groups of children all aged 6-7-8, with one or two younger, were very common out and about all round the village.

10 years ago, a lot of children played out on the street, but mostly from the age of 3 or 4. Children that age were often in the care of slightly older children. All children walked to school alone from the age of 7, when they started juniors, and any parent who didn't allow this would have been thought seriously odd! At the same age, children would go to play areas round the corner or other places close but out of sight of parents. From the age of 8 or 9, kids were going up onto nearby moors without adults - not necessarily with permission, but because they were 'playing out' and their parents didn't know exactly where they were.

5 years ago, the street had got quieter, but other than that, habits hadn't changed much.

These days, there are only a handful of children on the street. It's true there are fewer young children living here (most of the families have stayed put, so their children have grown up) but the rest of the village is quieter too. Children play in the park and play areas more than on the streets, and because these are further away from most people's homes, the children tend to be supervised by adults more often. It's definitely my impression that children play out much less often, generally. Kids still walk to school alone from the age of about 7, but more of them are accompanied or driven there. Children play out entirely unsupervised from the age of about 10-11-12. Generally, I'd say children stop being supervised the year before or after they start high school, rather than the year they start juniors, as it was 10 years ago.

'What is wrong with letting children go out and play? '

Nothing if you as the adult are willing to accept any risk to that because they are, well, children. Children of 7 or 8, no matter how, 'sensible' are not cognitively capable of supervising other young children, that's why you can't legally leave them alone in a home with younger children, hire them as baby sitters, etc.

But apparently, that's helicoptering or wrapping them in cotton wool to think, 'Well, my 7-year-old is not the adult or the parent, I am. I'm not going to ask them to effectively parent a 3-year-old under the ridiculous pretext that it fosters independence in a child.'