To be annoyed at how some people slag off the NHS?

[snowtunesgirl]

No it's not perfect but I'm still grateful that we have a National Health Service where if you need an ambulance, they don't first check you for Health insurance.

A friend of mine wasn't feeling well and had a bad experience with his local GP where he's not registered and for some reason they wouldn't let him temporarily register as an emergency. Therefore, he had to go the Walk-In Centre which was about an hour away.

It turns out that he has an ear infection and tonsillitis so felt pretty rotten but he's making out that he was on death's door and is banging on about how the NHS is shit because the first doctor wouldn't see him. He's also saying that lots of people die on the NHS every day due to neglect. I'm not saying that this doesn't happen but surely it's more of a rarity than the norm?

I've had some shitty experiences with the NHS but on the whole a REALLY positive one. I think it's a shame that all the bad bits of the NHS gets reported in the papers and somehow all the good stories never do.

The NHS is a great system to have, and built on a great Philiosphy, however people are unaware of the costs of basic treatment, and I think the system gets abused. I watched the programme "Sex and the City" about a GUM clinic in Manchester. I was really shocked at the number of people who get tested and treated for STD's then happily stated that they were going to go back out there and have unprotected sex again and again because they could! One US guy with HIV was regularly having unprotected sex and being treated for Syphilis. If they faced a bill of £300 every time they got an itch, perhaps it would make people sit up and take some responsiblity for their lives in some scenarios.

I moved out of the UK and pay £600 a month in insurance fees for healthcare and accident insurance for my family.

I had to pay higher premiums when we first moved, because my husband and I had slightly higher BMI's than the target range for normal coverage. It also meant that they wouldn't cover all the costs for obesity related illness.

So guess what? We lost weight. And feel so much better for it.

I really wonder how many people in the UK would do the same, knowing that the NHS would still pay for all their treatment regardless. I certainly wouldn't have. So it's actually made me a bit healthier. As part of my healthcare insurance I also get vouchers to use on gym membership and other exercise facilities.

I'm in Switzerland, and the healthcare is fantastic. No-one can be turned down for basic health insurance, and basic has to include the same level of treatment regardless of the Insurance company you select.

i think people only think of the extreme US model, when actually there are great alternatives to this in Germany, France, Switzerland and other countries around Europe.

It's the gross inefficiency that annoys me. My mother spent a long time at home, bedridden and with daily carer visits. We were told a hospital bed was
coming to make caring for her easier but nothing happened. 6 months later she was in a home and someone turned up to take the bed away - he took some
persuading that we hadn't had a bed in the first place.

The equipment distribution centre, for the whole county, has no asset management system at all - stuff is (or isn't, in our case) loaned out and collected in a completely ad hoc manner. They have no idea how much of what equipment they have or where it is.

Also, having been in hospital with her a few times lately you realise how low a priority anyone over 75 is. You wait hours to be seen, told to go somewhere else and wait hours again. All this time staff are casually strolling around looking important or chatting with each other. I'm sure they are performing a vital function and will pull together in time of crisis but it really doesn't seem like a great sense of urgency.

When the DTs were born we spent three weeks in Nicu, which couldn't have been better. However, DW was in a post-op maternity ward which seemed to operate in direct competition with NICU - contradictory, even combative advice, routines, etc. And lots of nattering, not particularly active staff.

The NHS is one of the things that make me proud to be British, but it could be an awful lot better.

proud of NHS in many ways. But nothings perfect

my friend's father just had end of life care on NHS and it was FANTASTIC - there was nothing that could have been made any better for him. All pain/anxiety were controlled, all practical needs met. He kept asking who was paying for it. Well, we all did, including him when he worked for so many years providing for his family including me for a time.

my own care as an MS patient has been very patchy at best, more accurately inadequate :(

Well it's not bad. But proud, hmm, not really.

Nursing care can be terrible.

You get so much better care if you are willing to top up, e.g., 'xyz hospital: it will be 3 months for your scan', 'xyz hospital: why certainly we can do that for you tommorrow on the NHS' equipmanet, it will be £200.'

Have 'paid as you go' for a number of things and it doesn't bear comparison I'm afraid. There's invariably a sense on the NHS that they're doing you a favour, especially in walk-in centres.

NHS is bloody brilliant, in my humble American opinion. It has pretty much given me my life back. I avoided seeing doctors in the U.S. for YEARS prior to moving abroad. There are a few conditions that I've since been diagnosed and treated for here by NHS doctors (namely thyroid issues and hypertension). Had I pursued treatment back home, it would have lead to instant labeling of having "pre-existing conditions" and I would have been presented with massive health insurance costs or complete denial of insurance coverage all together in some cases.

There will come a day when DH's job contract here will end and we'll return to the U.S. to face the music. I can only imagine the skyrocketing health insurance premiums we'll face :(

joanbyers - thats great if you can afford it, but there's a lot of people who just can't afford that extra £200 top up.

Indeed not, hence why I'm not writing any paeans of praise to the NHS....

Fantastic in my experience. Yes I know there are failings, as there would be in any other walk of life with the number of people that are treated, and there are definitely real issues (desperate your situation is terribly sad and unforgivable from the NHS) but I think (in true British style) we only report the failings / poor performance, not the achievements.

I had twins at 27 weeks - could have lost both of them but had 1st class service from the NHS both in terms of their time on SCBU and follow up care.
My H has also had cancer - once when he was 23 and then it came back 6 years later. The first time he needed an op (and follow up treatment), the second time he was in The Christie for 3 months. They were wonderful. He's still seen regularly and yes, sometimes the appointments are re-arranged, sometimes he has to wait for a while, but is it a real hardship? No.

I have the NHS to thank for my family so yes, definitely something to be proud of.

lovebunny a system that saved your baby and also treated you with respect and cared for your Mum with dignity would be so much better though... I am not proud of a system that only achieves one of the above.

Clearly there are alternatives out there - without focusing on the American model which seems to be as flawed as the one we have.

I LOVE the NHS!

My dh is a GP contractor with them and I know how bloody hard he works. Next week he leaves home on we'd evening and I'll see him the following Tuesday as he's working in a rural area and it's his night on call. He cares so much about his patients.

As for me, on Christmas eve last year I got out of bed, took about 7 steps then fell on the stairs. I had lumbar puncture, CT scan, MRI, ultrasound, nerve conduction tests, x-rays, diagnosis by a specialist neurologist ( after they took, I kid you not, TWENTY SEVEN vials of blood!).

I've got a rare nerve condition. The only thing that helps is an immunological drip that comes in at £7,800 per month. After it I can walk, write, type, sew, talk, have pelvic sensation ( think about what that means!!)

I bloody love the NHS!!

I,m glad we have a NHS as i simply woulde,t be able to afford it every body deserves a right to be cared for money should not come into it.

Then funding of the NHS and the quality of service are largely 2 separate issues.

I was diagnosed with breast cancer on 25th Oct. I had an operation on 22nd November and hopefully I will be fine. Between diagnosis and op I had two ultrasound scans and an MRI. When in hospital I was treated with enormous kindness and respect from everyone I encountered. I shudder to think how much I would have had to pay as an individual, or how high my insurance premiums would have been without it.

I have very little patience for people who slag off the NHS. Not only had it saved my life, it has allowed me to enjoy the rest of it without facing financial ruin.

As this is in DOTD, perhaps those who are in favour of the NHS would like to visit my thread in Chat here. It mainly affects people who live in SE London but there's also an important point of principle as regards whether one NHS trust can be penalised for the failings of another.

Goodness me, I didn't know this was one of the DOTD!

I'm at work at the mo so can't reply in length!

"Have 'paid as you go' for a number of things and it doesn't bear comparison I'm afraid. There's invariably a sense on the NHS that they're doing you a favour, especially in walk-in centres"

but in a pay as you go system you can get a terrible "well if you don't it you are free to take your custom elsewhere" attitude. Example:
Very young friend of mine, pregnant, wanted to refuse a certain intervention. Nurses warned her that if she did question the consultant, he would not admit her under his care if she had any problems later in the pregnancy, and she would have to find someone else to see her - not so easy since she lived nowhere near a big city where there was choice for consumers! So she had the proceedure that she didn't want and rightly questioned . Because if she didn't like it she could take her buisness else where!

I have had some good service from the NHS, but also some bad experiences. Haven't we all?

But to say people have to be 'proud' of it seems a bit odd. Other European countries have cleaner, more modern facilities, shorter waiting lists and better outcomes. The image of the NHS abroad is that it is old fashioned, inefficient and grubby.

And remember the NHS is not free: everybody pays through National Insurance contributions.

Yes, I think we're lucky and good to know the NHS is always there for you and your loved ones, especially perhaps in emergencies.

But in my experience, as both a student nurse and as a patient (well having my two babies !) I do think the NHS could be more efficient and effective. Maternity services in particular need improving so that women are really well supported especially in the first hours and days with their babies in post-natal wards and/or at home.

NHS has been free to me - no way will my national insurance contributions ever make a dent in what they have paid for me over the years. But that has enabled me to be a happy and involved member of society - hold down a job, raise a child etc. It does make me immensely proud that I live in a society that didn't just throw me on the scrap heap when I was born disabled or expect me to find tens of thousands of pounds for life saving treatment.

I think a lot of these criticisms sound a bit petty to me. I owe the NHS my entire life.

My wife is an NHS consultant so I am totally biased. People forget that the NHS does NOT cost taxpayers too much. As a % of GDP it costs about the average of all OECD countries. However, it's one of the only "free at the point of need" services in the world. It's a myth that it is wildly inefficient and that private markets would do it cheaper better faster. Healthcare costs in the US are more than double the rest of the world and that isn't because they have better healthcare - it's because it's mostly insurance companies and private clinics.

The best thing politicians could do is leave the whole thing alone for 10 years. Stop pressing for changes again and again and let doctors get on with keeping us healthy and alive.

(rant over)

I just have no idea why anyone would be "proud" of the NHS. It does a job, in some areas excellently and in some areas absolutely shockingly badly. And, it is not especially cheap. Its only plus is the oft quoted "free at the point of delivery".

Personal experiences:

2 days PICU for one of our children when they were a tiny baby. Phenomenally good. Could not fault care or attitude. I suspect we would not have one of our children without them.

The birth of both of my children. Neither good, one ended in GA EMCS and the other in instrumental delivery. Many things could have been done to ensure a better experience and possibly avoid the instrumental delivery altogether. In addition, there was not even a room on the labour ward for my wife's VBAC so the notes read "not in established labour" 10 mins before the pushing stage and 30 mins before an emergency rush to theatre (never actually saw the labour ward).

My mother, mid 70s, just diagnosed with cancer, still undergoing tests. Only referred for a scan when she insisted she had private cover. Otherwise, in great pain, would still probably be being treated with antacids. Shocking way to treat someone elderly and in a great deal of acute pain.

One of my mother's friends, mid 50s, died of ovarian cancer. Diagnosed very late in the day due to ascites. Dead in great pain 5 months later. V poor palliative care.

Aside from personal experience, you only need to read the testimony of nurses (on MN amongst many places) who are too busy to give proper care. And look at the outcomes from most serious diseases, a long way from the best outcomes in the Western World.

It is this blind faith and "pride" in an expensive and average-at-best institution which prevents people demanding proper healthcare for a first world country, especially for the elderly and pregnant.

My prescription was picked up today £200 of drugs which I got for free.
I am very proud of the nhs but there needs a big shake up and not just for the sake of change which seems to happen a lot. Being a long term patient it is so hard having to fight non stop and be turned down for things that help but its a million times better than over countries. We all know someone who had a serious problem abroad and were refused an ambulance or treatment before they could prove they could pay, here non of us think 'they say I need an MRI but if I have it we will lose our house'.

In my experience though as a student nurse I'm not sure they really get the most from their student nurses and junior nurses. It all seems too doctor led to me and I think would benefit from recognising everyone as (potential) skilled practitioners - all working as a team to give person centred care to patients.