To be annoyed at how some people slag off the NHS?

[snowtunesgirl]

No it's not perfect but I'm still grateful that we have a National Health Service where if you need an ambulance, they don't first check you for Health insurance.

A friend of mine wasn't feeling well and had a bad experience with his local GP where he's not registered and for some reason they wouldn't let him temporarily register as an emergency. Therefore, he had to go the Walk-In Centre which was about an hour away.

It turns out that he has an ear infection and tonsillitis so felt pretty rotten but he's making out that he was on death's door and is banging on about how the NHS is shit because the first doctor wouldn't see him. He's also saying that lots of people die on the NHS every day due to neglect. I'm not saying that this doesn't happen but surely it's more of a rarity than the norm?

I've had some shitty experiences with the NHS but on the whole a REALLY positive one. I think it's a shame that all the bad bits of the NHS gets reported in the papers and somehow all the good stories never do.

Yes everyone can complain if there is bad service. But do you honestly think that there is no bad service in the USA?

Bad medical experiences can happen anywhere. Be lucky that if they do happen here at least you didnt pay 30,000 for the 'pleasure'.

The NHS is amazing and needs to be applauded.

You should see the utter pile of shite of a computer records system that we have to use at our care trust starting from next week so we can 'enjoy' a paperless working environment. Cost absolute millions and is the most unintuitive programme I have ever seen I can see staff really struggling with it if our training sessions were anything to go by and it seriously affecting patient care. I swear my dcs computer games are better tested. It would be funny if it wasn't so important and could be a matter of life or death. This together with the PFI building scheme has pushed the trust into the red for the forseeable future, so on order to balance the books frontline staff are being cut. But hey ho as long as the managers and directors can have blackberries, ipads and fancy offices who cares about the staff and patients.

for those of you who think you get better care if you pay at point of service, lets use the example of maternity/obstetrics..

okay as difficult as it is I will ignore the US in this one and concentrate on other european systems, which one of these is better service than we get here?:

• one where everyone is routinely given an epidural on admission!
• one where a midwife is in prison for attending a homebirth as the mother did not want to go to hospital!
• one where doulas are banned form some labour units and if you want a home birth you have to totally opt out of mainstream care and take your chances (not sure if this one has changed in the last 3/4 years, but that's how it was v recently
• one where everyone is forced to go natural/drug free, at least initially, regardless of their feelings about it

don't kid yourselves that the NHSs failings are due to they payment systems and everywhere where you pay you "get what you pay for" and are a respected consumer - that is total bollocks, pay as you go systems have as many flaws, with the addition of the payment issue

mumzy, I had to smile when I read your post. A wry smile.

My DH was MD of an IT consultancy/software house. He stopped selling to the NHS because "they spend too long deliberating over which of the wrong products to buy". His company won plenty of profitable contracts but they were soul-destroying because the NHS had bought the wrong thing every time. He won the projects his competitors should have won and his competitors won the projects his firm should have won. As a consequence the NHS spent fortunes on consultancy tweaking to software to be like something they could have bought in the first place. So sad.

baubles - which europeancountries are you referring t with your broadly absurb statements? Here in Belgium, while the only pain reliefavailable during childbirth is epidural, they are not routinely given and I have friends who have delivered without pain relief both here and in the UK. However, thedifference here is that if you want an epidural you get it, no questions, unlike many people I know in the UK who had to fight to get it, were refused it or were told the anaesthatist was unavailable!

A dentist I see here reackoned the NHS has some of the best doctors in the world, but that the problem is that there is no real way for patients to show their dislike of the service that they receive. I I don't like my doctor, dentist, obstrtrician, hospital here I can simply go to a different one. That is missing fromthe NHS as you're supposed to all be grateful that you're not paying.

In fact, I also think that people forget they are paying for the NHS, just not at the point of delivery.

"I I don't like my doctor, dentist, obstrtrician, hospital here I can simply go to a different one"

you can here too, I have changed NHS consultants simply because I didn't like the first!

you can't "just" shop around and find a doc you like if you are regional in other EU countries, fine if you live near a city, but if you're out in the sticks its much harder, for example there were only 2 consultants in a certain dicipline covering 3 counties in one country I lived in, and they mostly worked together and had the same philosophies so it wasn't much "choice" really! you can be even more stuck with a shit head than you might be in the UK. Paying as you go ISN'T the route of that and doesn't solve that problem.

(I've also changed my NHS GP to someone I prefer)

www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/oct/22/hungary-midwife-agnes-gereb-home-birth

Of course you can change clinician in the NHS!

amyboo if care in belgium is great, that's fantastic, but I'd suggest that it is down to many factors (which could be adopted under the NHS or any other system) and not simply because of how it is funded!

grovel It is good to have my thoughts confirmed.

I work in admin in the NHS and am sick of people sat in offices, who earn a fortune, decide that this and that computer system is a good idea without ever having done my job and never bothering to listen to feedback. They know best!!!!

People who work on the front line for the NHS work hard and try to do the best they can whilst the whole time people "at the top" keep throwing obstacles in our way

I think that is part of the problem cheapandchic. When it all goes wrong here people excuse it cos it was 'free'. Of course its not free we have paid, its just much harder here to work out the cost of the hospital stay that nearly killed you.

I think the nhs is truly amazing.
Yes they make mistakes, most of these are due to under funding. With less lawsuits (not saying all are unnecessary e.g long term care needed etc) less managers and more healthcare. To me the whole trusts bring run as businesses is wrong, I don't want accountability I want people to have the funds to do the job do their isn't the mistakes.

YANBU

I fully appreciate that there are people who have had very poor treatment at the hands of the NHS, superbugs in hospitals, cancelled operations, missed opportunities to diagnose problems that could have been treated etc. Just today I heard that my cousin whose son was 6 weeks premature and who has been losing weight due to a tongue tie which is preventing him from feeding was told there was a 4 week waiting list to get the problem resolved or he could pay £150 to go privately and have it done the next day. It takes at least a fortnight to get an appointment at my local GP. It can frustrate you terribly to pay your taxes and be faced with that kind of situation.

However, the NHS have been so good to me during my recent mc and ERPC proceedure and so good with looking after DS when he has had glue ear, frequent chest infections and now needs to see a speech and language therapist. We have had quick referrals, genuinely interested and kind, professional staff and I have to say I think our hospitals, doctors and nurses and other healthcare professionals are a national treasure and something really worth defending and protecting from cuts.

Free healthcare for all, while it is rarely perfect in practice, is a noble idea and a hell of a lot better than the alternative - I've really struggled with money over the last couple of years, working part-time and paying for childcare for DS and a mortgage etc. and both he and I have had first class healthcare without having to pay a penny for it, which I will forever be grateful for because I could have never afforded to bankroll it if the NHS hadn't have been there.

I think the concept of the NHS is amazing and something this country can be very proud of but it has become , like the education system, a political football to get parties elected and as a result suffers from a lack of well thought through long term plans. As with education with the election of a new political party you get major changes which are never given enough time to bed down before there is change again. The amount of money I seen wasted on projects and equipment because no one is held accountable is heartbreaking especially when I know certain areas are starved of funds. I propose that the NHS and education system are run by an independent multidisciplinary body who can accurately assess our long term health needs and budget for them accordingly and are free from political interference.

healthcare free at the point of service is great

the NhS could be better

management of it is rubbish in places
uncritical views of the service help nobody
unreasoned slamming of it doesn't help either.

THe NHS is brilliant compared to the health service in some countries. We get lots of things free.

When I visit my local GP sometimes I have noticed that over one hundred peopel have not turned up for appointments for the month. What a shame.

At the age of 21 I was involved in an accident which almost cost me my life. I was abroad when it happened. The hospital I stay in was not nice, the food was not nice either. I cannot remember having hot water and all the nicer things we enjoy in this country.

I am not saying our NHS 100% but compared to some countries its brilliant!

We should be greatful we have things so easily. Thats how I feel.

mumzy - i work in education rather than health but it's fair to say I would share your concerns and also agree that neither NHS nor education should be party political but independently, fairly and impartially monitored and managed, led strategically and delivered effectively. But to have health care and education for all is, I think, definitely something worth continuing to aspire to.

If you get poor service from the NHS, then you should complain about it. Treating it like a sacred cow that thy shalt not criticise is ludicrous

When I had my DS, the hospital was frankly filthy (I was advised not to have a bath while there because of the infection risk, god forbid they might have cleaned the bloody thing), the midwives were rude and aggressive when I resisted being induced (I had pre-eclampsia and was dangerously ill with high blood pressure - four hours after a midwife virtually accused me of being too posh to push, I was rushed into theatre for a c-section), when I did eventually develop an infection the nurses regularly had to be reminded to give me the antibiotics and take my blood pressure. It was shocking.

We are not particularly well off, but one of the things we do make sure we set aside money for is private health care, largely as a result of that and other negative experiences within the NHS. Yes, there are many things that are great about the NHS, but there are also lots of things that are very very poor and pretending otherwise is ridiculous

In my experience, neither the US or the UK have a perfect system. However, my DH's experience with the NHS, where after 2 years of ripping his ACL he still hadn't had any surgery, is a case in point where the NHS really lets people down.

It has more than likely taken 5-10 years of his lifespan, he is in his 30's and has arthritis in his knees, and all because old men were considered higher up the list than a healthy, active 21 year old new Dad. I feel pretty bitter about that, tbh.

NHS has safely delivered my two boys by c-section, treated them for ear infections, head wounds along with other minor issues, it has also removed a large brain tumour from my head all with great success. I am forever grateful and thankful.

I feel very mixed about this. I work in the NHS in an area that is not life-or-death and I think the cuts are so swingeing as to make what I do actually defunct. Really, if you only see someone for 45 minutes three times a year and expect to be in a position to advise them about how to feel about their communication, you really have no understanding of how human beings operate. My work is based on relationship with clients and I have none. It is a waste of money that I am even paid for doing it, I am burned out and considering leaving. I believe in the right of people to access high quality support and services for communication difficulties from birth or after stroke but currently they don't exist and the system is laughable. Yes, many more people get treatment than in other countries like Ireland etc but there is a dishonesty about the quality of the services they receive - people are told that what they are getting is evidence based in terms of dosage when it is patently not. It might not be a third world service but it's not good enough.

As a patient in the NHS this year, I had excellent - no, in fact, a luxurious - birth experience. I gave birth in a pool in a home from home suite with stars in the ceiling and colour changing lights. My friend, due three weeks after me, nearly lost her baby as there was no midwife to attend her and she had to labour on a trolley in the assessment centre without pain relief while dance music blared on the radio to be told that it had to be loud for "confidentiality" reasons. She ended up with a crash section under general anaesthetic. Not good enough.

I have had mental health concerns. I got a service here I would never have got in many other countries. I have had access to 25 sessions of CBT - AMAZING, beyond AMAZING to have this without charge. Yet I also had a Community Psychiatric Nurse who was, frankly, very damaging; suggesting I should leave my husband for not doing the dishes, downplaying all my progress in CBT so I doubted myself and laughing at my concerns my son wasn't gaining weight and encouraging me not to weigh him when I was to find out he had dropped from the 91st to the 0.4 of a centile while I sat there doing exercises to reduce my anxiety about his weight loss because I thought it was all in my head!!! Then when I was finally out of PND and well enough to chase it up, she had the gall to suggest that they knew all along and that if I hadn't worked it out for myself they'd have had to involve external e.g. social services!! Yet no one had said anything to me, to my husband etc, we had been up and down to the GP and had HV visits etc.. total arse covering bollocks.

So what's my judgement? I don't have one. I've seen friends with very poorly babies get amazing service from amazing people and I have experienced some of this myself. I've also seen some dangerous and damaging practices. The fact that it is "free" at the point of service does not excuse the bad experiences people have endured, even if they would have received worse elsewhere. Two wrongs never make a right.

I think the NHS is am amazing idea and I have pride in a lot of what it does. I also have despair. I don't think I can stay in it much longer because I just don't have the heart to turn people away who are suffering and pretend to them that it's for their own good and not a resourcing issue.

so what's my judgement? I don't have one. I've seen friends with very poorly babies get amazing service from amazing people and I have experienced some of this myself. I've also seen some dangerous and damaging practices. The fact that it is "free" at the point of service does not excuse the bad experiences people have endured, even if they would have received worse elsewhere. Two wrongs never make a right

I completely agree with you, thunk - the NHS has saved my son's life twice, once with a bone marrow transplant for aplastic anaemia, secondly for Type 1 diabetes.

I've had 2 x C-sections & my husband's had excellent car for dilated cardiomyopathy; his consultant is second to none.

Our local much-maligned hospital cared well for my dad in his last days despite severely limited resources.

My only problem with the system is the lack of consistency - many of the nurses and some of the doctors at 'wonderful Great Ormond Street' hospital were disorganised, inefficient, unclean, uncaring & had to be PUSHED for his proper diagnosis and care. He would have died if I had not been both pushy and challenging of wrong diagnosis, unclean practice and total inefficiency. This was acknowledged by several mothers of other children who did not survive. The way they told me: 'I feel guilty for not fighting as you have done, I will never forgive myself' stays with me. Their losses should not have happened as they did, they should not have blamed themselves, compounding their grief.

It is more than infuriating to see the lack of resource management in the NHS (although I am going back 20 years). The good, dedicated, efficient and hardworking staff in all domains seem to carry those who choose to surf eBay when they think they can get away with it.

I am a teacher, and I know all about the difficulties of management in the public sector ... but health is even more important.

I am both profoundly grateful and yet frustrated to the point of paying to go privately, although I don't believe the care would be of a better standard, just more readily available.

care, not car !

YANBU. It's a free service and I get really narked if someone who doesn't pay into the service has a go at it. I miss it terribly as I live elsewhere and I've had the debt collectors after me for unpaid hospital bills. Hugely embarrassing and humiliating.