To be annoyed at how some people slag off the NHS?

[snowtunesgirl]

No it's not perfect but I'm still grateful that we have a National Health Service where if you need an ambulance, they don't first check you for Health insurance.

A friend of mine wasn't feeling well and had a bad experience with his local GP where he's not registered and for some reason they wouldn't let him temporarily register as an emergency. Therefore, he had to go the Walk-In Centre which was about an hour away.

It turns out that he has an ear infection and tonsillitis so felt pretty rotten but he's making out that he was on death's door and is banging on about how the NHS is shit because the first doctor wouldn't see him. He's also saying that lots of people die on the NHS every day due to neglect. I'm not saying that this doesn't happen but surely it's more of a rarity than the norm?

I've had some shitty experiences with the NHS but on the whole a REALLY positive one. I think it's a shame that all the bad bits of the NHS gets reported in the papers and somehow all the good stories never do.

I love the fact we have the NHS but hate that so much that its all about money. My dh cancer was missed for a year because they failed to test at cost. I had three years of pure hell before I refused to move unless referred. Two visits to consultant who knew what to do and I was sorted. Some times people do know what they are feeling and need but sadly GPs are the gateway to services and if yours sucks its horrible

No fuck ups are fine. But every system will have fuck ups, unfortunately their is no such thing as a perfect health care system.

I've always found people slag the NHS as an insitution, not the staff.

The NHS insitution killed my mother, not the staff.

On the other hand I would have had 3 stillborn babies without the NHS.

Different areas have different strengths and weaknesses.

Hmm, being in work - and having insurance - in Belgium, the care is fantastic - but you pay and (hopefully) claim most of it back afterwards. I have no idea what you do if you cannot afford the 23 euros to see the GP....

My dd broke her arm last year on holiday in France. We had travel insurance. Still, before they transported her from A&E to the Clinique, where she had her arm reset under GA, I had to give the ambulance men 100 euros. It was lucky I had it on me - I certainly did not need all that stress at that moment in time. The care she received in the hospital though was 2nd to none. Private room, wonderful staff, nice breakfast, camp bed for me. The bill for a one night stay and surgery was nearly 1000 euros. ALWAYS get travel insurance.

On the NHS I think she would have received the same medical treatment - without the trappings- for free.

NHS gives you false hope. If you had no insurance or couldn't pay for it, then you know where you stand with regards to treatment. Instead, you get on an endless run of waiting lists which results in appointments with shockingly rubbish service compared to if you had gone private.

They are great at saving lives. They saved my sons life who was born extremely premature and I am grateful for that, but since then it has been one fuck up after another, so much so that I have decided to completely opt out and go private instead. Now at least I know where I stand and no more cunting waiting lists. and I do realise that I am one of the fortunate ones who could do that.

and what lisad123 said about GP's. Some of them really are beyond useless.

To answer a question put to me back on page 2 (just logged back in)

EuroShagmore Wed 28-Nov-12 17:47:35
There are other models of healthcare provision that are not the NHS and not the US system. I've lived in two Continental European countries and received healthcare that I considered to be superior to the NHS care without the harshness of the NHS system.

NumericalMum Wed 28-Nov-12 17:49:36
How much did you have to pay for those Euro?

In one example, I had a bladder infection. I knew from past experience that if they hang around for more than a day or so, they will turn into a painful and dangerous kidney infection. In the UK, I would have had to take the next available GP appointment (usually days away) or beg for an emergency same day appointment at whatever time they could fit me in. Where I was I was able to chose a urology/kidney practitioner (somewhere between a GP and a specialist), see them the same day at a time that was convenient to me, have a 40 minute appointment all for around £5-10 (the rest being covered by the equivalent of national insurance subscriptions paid in that country). And there were safety net provisions for people who couldn't pay the small % contribution. Yes, £5-10 is a lot of money to a lot of people (it was to me) but in my view it was worth it for the superior service.

Actually Porto when my son broke his arm it went like this:

A&E utterly filthy (four hour wait and no pain killers offered until I asked), Xray, temporary plaster from hand to elbow. Arrived 6pm - got home at 2.30am. (he was 6 - 18 now).

Follow up appointment in 11 days.

11 days later told bones had moved and he needed surgery to re-set them (he should never have been left so long in such a short cast when the break was beyond the wrist). No advice had been given that this might happen - no advice given that there was any risk (if there had been I would have made a private referral).

Arm re-broken under GA; cast from tips of fingers to shoulder for minimum of six weeks - ds woke screaming to hear the screams of other patients and a doctor telling him if he was in pain he would insert a pessary up his anus - and yes my 6 year old son knew what that meant and howled.

The lovely hospital stay outlined in post above. Exceptionally rude staff and no explanation provided about why we were not better advised.

DS's friend who broke his arm in Austria was seen by a&e consultant (similar break) and was then reviewed every two days to make sure the bones didn't move. After five days the permanent cast was applied. He was in plaster for a total of six weeks; my ds for a total of 9. The boy in Austria avoided surgery.

When DS's ear drum perforated in the UK we were told oh it's nothing, it's burst, we don't recommend antibiotics - he ended up with a dreadful infection and 8 days off school. When the same thing happened on a ski-ing holiday in Austria he saw the doctor; he was referred to an ENT consultant as is the routine, his ear was cleaned, anti-biotics were prescribed immediately. He was well within 48 hours.

There is in my opinon no comparison whatsoever in either clinical terms or in bedside manner, basic courtesy terms, and I know I would prefer to be in Europe and would not contemplate not having health insurance in the UK. As a family we pay health insurance to the tune of about £300 pcm. I am sure it would probably cost less in Europe yet here I would not want to be without it.

I find it extraordinary that staff at my local private hospital know little simple words like; Mrs, please, thank you, good morning, would you like to take a seat. In the local NHS facilities the staff don't seem to have developed beyond "oi you", "Marriedinwhite - in a busy clinic rising to MAAARRRIED IN WHITE I called you just nah - the doctah's waiting", "wodjya want", "nah, I ain't got no information". They get away with it because they are not dependent on the patient's good will for their revenue and it is an institutional disgrace in my opinion.

i can't see hwo the nhs can possibly survive in the future, i doubt it will still be here in 60 years

Oh yes, and lest I forget: baby one - miscarried at 17 weeks - GPs response "did you want it".

Baby two - almost died because the midwife didn't notice the cord was wrapped round his neck and that he was posterior.

Baby three - miscarried at 11 weeks - sonographer's response - "oh was it planned - are you upset"?

Baby four - 27 weeks - died could have been handled better. DH was in court - chief midwife came to see me and gently talked about how difficult my life must be and then got arsy when I told her he was prosectuing - NOT being banged up. Evidently they were worried and had spent a lot of time on it. They could have ready my notes: father's occupation - BARRISTER!

Baby five - fantastic - insisted on consultant only care and got it because I was then regarded as high risk and we paid

FUCKING DISGRACEFUL CLINICALLY AND SOCIALLY. OH IT MAKES ME SO CROSS AND MY YOUNGEST IS NOW 14.5.

I find it sad that some people have had such negative experinced

Ds is 3 and has had over 20 trips to a and e about 15 of which have ended up with admissions to the ward. He is also treated at outpatients. The whole peads department is fantastic, perfectly clean (Ds has walked around in bare feet all day and still had clean feet at the end of the day) with domestic staff always in the department, every staff member pulls their weight and nothing is too much for them. Before now the senior sister has gone to pharmacy to pick up meds so we can get home quicker rather than waiting for them to be sent up.

On the other hands some of the parents are down right rude to the staff. I understand parents are worried when children are in hopsital but there is no excuse to f and blind at someone because it has took them too long to get you a bottle of milk.

Married That is awful! We pay about 150 euros a year, top up - over what we pay in NI to the mutuelle. Each trip to the GP costs about 6 euros after reclaim - takes about a week to get the money back - but I can just turn up and see the GP the same day. If I need referring to a specialist, or for blood tests etc I would normally expect an appointment within one week.

We are in London. I think it makes a difference to the quality of care. I think the really cutting edge stuff is probably excellent. The day to day bread and butter stuff for which we all pay handsomely is utterly disgraceful and too often delivered in facilities that are frankly woefully inadequate in terms of basic hygiene and basic good manners and communication.

in the summer I had a massive asthma attack - drove myself to hospital was too poorly to walk around to A&E so just walked into the hospital - a nurse and a manager saw me - helped me round to A&E (I was turning blue at this stage). Don't talk just thumbs up or thumbs down at reception desk - straight through (nurse told receptionist don't leave her on her own and get a dr immediately. Within seconds a dr was there and put on oxygen, nebuliser and xray - even got a free sandwich - all the staff were absolutely fantastic and basically saved my life. You are all wonderful!!!!!!!

OP here. Just got in and will read and respond later.

dunno. they had my mum on the liverpool care plan without consulting us, four weeks ago. good job the rules changed, eh? they didn't take any notice of what we said about her medication, so for two weeks before lcp, and afterwards, up to three days ago, they were overdosing her with a very potent medicine.

but if they hadn't been there, my daughter would be dead, probably her baby too, my mum would have died hours after i was born and so on. so i'm glad they're there. i just wish they'd listen. and that the nurses weren't mean to my mum. or rude to me - but at least i'm not at their mercy, yet.

The thing is, the NHS is one of the biggest employers in the UK and there are good bits of it and bad bits. It all depends on who you get on the day.

When I broke my leg a couple of years ago, the anaesthetist, plaster technicians and radiographers were fabulous. I actually wrote a letter in to say how good the plaster technicians had been, and the anaesthetist took into consideration that I was still breastfeeding. The consultant was an ignorant sexist pig with appalling bedside manner, no regard for NHS guidelines on supporting breastfeeding mothers and told me to give up my job and hobbies now as I was a cripple now! (Fwiw I am still doing my job, and still go skiing and riding regularly.) The ward staff who told me they couldn't give me any pain control unless I agreed to give up bfing could be better educated too. They still fixed my leg, but it would have been better if they could have done it without unnecessary battles!

I am proud of the NHS. I've had a few mildly crap experiences and a few very positive ones. These are some of the best things they have done for my family:

My GP referred my DD to CAMHS, and the NHS-funded child psychologist there has truly turned our lives around. Not only that, she has made the school implement strategies that have led to DD changing from being on the cusp of exclusion, to being a happy, engaged pupil.

Wonderful community midwives who rushed to my house (one on her day off) when I had a precipitate labour and delivered my breech baby on the bathroom floor.

An ambulance got me to hospital when I had (another) precipitate labour. They came straight away and got me there just in time.

Took my Dad to hospital when he was dying, and looked after him so beautifully in critical care, that when he died a week later, it was peacefully and with dignity.

I had ok ante natal care for my first 2 children. Then I had a late miscarriage and was very well looked after, including a very helpful post-mortem consultation with my consultant (which my community midwife attended on her day off). I had very vigilant ante natal care, including counselling, in my next pregnancy.

We've kept our local florist in business, buying thank-you flowers , and my brother and I wrote to the manager of the critical care unit to thank them. We are really, really lucky in this country. My SIL had a baby in the US around the time my DS1 was born, and my in-laws (who are medics in the US) were blown away at how good the NHS is.

The staff are usually lovely and I am always incredibly grateful for how friendly and caring they are in what must be a difficult job.

The system is rotten to the core, IMO. too much red tape, too many rules that have to be followed, in a bid to keep costs down, but in the end just escalates them.

Two very recent examples.

A friend's father had a fall. His eyesight is poor and he is waiting for a cataracts appointment to come through. After the fall he was taken into hospital. A few weeks on and he is still there. they are struggling to get him independent enough to go home, particularly as he can't see well and is disorientated.

Whilst in hospital the letter came through at home for the cataracts appointment. he didn't respond as he was in hospital (the same hospital) and missed the response date. Friend contacted them and explained his father was in their hospital and that's why it was missed. They said he now has to go back to his GP and be referred all over again. Friend says, he can't go back to his GP, he's in their hospital. They said there's nothing they can do. This is the most ridiculous system!

Second one. I was referred by my dentist to the hospital for major dental work under GA back in June. I cannot tolerate local except in minute quantities and have too much to be done under local. The PCT took it upon themselves to refer to the sedation place instead, ignoring that I cannot have LA. So i waited 4 months only to find it was an appointment I couldn't take. I had to go back to the start of the system all over again. 7 months on, I am still waiting for a first consultation - not the op, a first consultation at the hospital.

In that time I have had 4 courses of antibiotics because one tooth has a hole right into the root and is getting infected. Dental x rays show that the abcess has started eating into the jaw bone, but because i am not a medical emergency, they cannot do anything until the (second!) referral has gone through the system. Every time I have antibiotics I also get terrible thrush and as I am allergic to most antifungals, that has also taken up loads of doctor time.

Hours of medical time and masses of extra expense has been wasted because of the "system". Because I've been waiting so long without dental treatment, my teeth are getting worse and worse and it is going to be a far longer and more complicated job than if they had done it in June.

I could site so many other examples. I can tell you why the NHS is costing so much money and yet waiting lists are still sky high. I can see it for myself. The system is broken and I cannot see it can continue like this.

I am proud of it but I have seen a lot of changes in the last few years regarding referrals and budgets and who will refer to whom and who will prescribe because it comes out of their budget, they wont do it it has to come out of gps, they wont prescribe as it's too expensive
etc etc etc
It should not be my job as a mother and a carer to chase it all up and wade between the politics. I worry about people who don't have parents/relatives or an advocate that can do this for them, it leaves people vulnerable

This is exactly it, OwlLady. I keep coming across, "we need to do this but we can't because x needs to refer you." Or the GP receptionist who says to me "you can't go to path lab for a blood test, it cost us too much, it has to be done here" despite the fact that every single time they can't get blood out of me and in the end send me to path lab anyway. Thus wasting two medical appointments.

The amount of chasing I have had to do to get a dental referral (which the dentist says I urgently need) through the system is just ridiculous. Hours and hours. Someone old with no advocate would have probably just died of the secondary infections by now.

I also work for the NHS and I really get annoyed when Mums ask for Calpol or dry skin cream, on prescription because its free, its not free it still costs the NHS millions, go buy some in tescos . In my day we could only get it on prescription, now you can buy loads of stuff at the counter and not even see a medic.

I know, that is my worry musicoposy. I had problems getting emergency epilepsy medicine, which is vital and it could prove fatal without it. They wanted to then change the prescription back to an older fashioned drug which compromises dignity if used in public and it was just down to cost. In the end I had to say to my GP, if my daughter has a seizure and goes into status and we have no emergency treatment I will hold the surgery responsible and they prescribed. My GP is LOVELY too, I have no issues with that, it's the too-ing and fro-ing, it's the paeds responsibility, it's the gp's responsibilty, it's x's responsibility. As a patient or advocate for that patient all you want is the end service or medicine, you don't want to be involved in all that. It must be extremely frustrating and upsetting for the staff/nurses/gp/physios/ot's etc etc involved too

I agree mooey. The only time I have had calpol from the NHS is when DS (then 2) was prescribed a stronger (6 plus type) when in with pneumonia so it was sent home with the rest of his drugs.

Maybe we should take all easily and cheaply bought medications off of prescription so only things you can't buy can be prescribed. The doctor could write down exactly what you need to buy from the pharmacist. Lot of medications are so cheap to buy. Maybe that NHS money would be better used elsewhere. I do think things like this will eventually need to change.