To be annoyed at how some people slag off the NHS?

[snowtunesgirl]

No it's not perfect but I'm still grateful that we have a National Health Service where if you need an ambulance, they don't first check you for Health insurance.

A friend of mine wasn't feeling well and had a bad experience with his local GP where he's not registered and for some reason they wouldn't let him temporarily register as an emergency. Therefore, he had to go the Walk-In Centre which was about an hour away.

It turns out that he has an ear infection and tonsillitis so felt pretty rotten but he's making out that he was on death's door and is banging on about how the NHS is shit because the first doctor wouldn't see him. He's also saying that lots of people die on the NHS every day due to neglect. I'm not saying that this doesn't happen but surely it's more of a rarity than the norm?

I've had some shitty experiences with the NHS but on the whole a REALLY positive one. I think it's a shame that all the bad bits of the NHS gets reported in the papers and somehow all the good stories never do.

I totally agree with you the nhs may not be the greatest however I am happier knowing that if my children are ill or any one for that matter I do not have to worry about them being allowed treatment. I would hate to have to check paperwork while someone I loved was suffering x

Yes (in asnwer to thread title)

At this time of night, that is all I am capable of saying .

Or not so capable, as it may be: answer

I think you are right to a point but having been in hospital just 3 weeks ago it resembled more of a filthy hell-hole and it VASTLY needs to improve. Yes o.k. in some countries things are worse and in America you have to pay but other than the drugs the NHS is rubbish in many ways. Uncaring staff, being treated like you're on a production line and don't get me started on the waiting lists. This includes NHS Dental care too. Although I do know of people who complain about private care which is also worrying. Very sad

I am very glad we have it. I have had some superb experiences - caring, insightful doctors and brilliant nurses with awesome people skills.
Equally, I've had some very frightening experiences which were due to staff shortages, leading to mine and one of my dc's lives being in serious danger.
Then there have been just frustrating experiences, which were down to staff not doing their job properly.

I'm glad we have it and worry it isn't going to last.

I am a midwife so hear people complaining a lot, I've had less than perfect care myself (undiagnosed tumour was one cock up) but I still wouldn't be without it.

I think the NHS is good in principle, but a bit like privatised train travel, the reality is not quite as good... But it isn't like the only alternative to the NHS is the US system either. I live in Belgium, where the quality and, just as importantly, the availability of healthcare services is excellent. No waiting lists to see specialists, you simply make an appointment directly with the specialist concerned, no referral required. We don't pay expensive medical insurance, but we do pay towards the costs of seeing GPs and other doctors in consultations. Most hospital treatment is fully paid for, but if you want a single room for example, you have to pay a bit towards it.

As someone who has suffered a stillbirth and now am mid way theough a high risk pregnancy, I've been amazed how quickly I've been treated by the various specialists involved - something which I really don't think would be happening if I were in the UK simply because of the way the referral system works.

"I am very glad we have it. I have had some superb experiences - caring, insightful doctors and brilliant nurses with awesome people skills.
Equally, I've had some very frightening experiences which were due to staff shortages, leading to mine and one of my dc's lives being in serious danger."

This kind of post is so common on this thread. Why, oh why, are you very glad we have a service which is SO POOR it has endangered your and one of your children's lives?! The UK is a first world country with really quite expensive health. As long as people are grateful for the fact that we actually have medical staff who can save lives, the NHS will never get better.

People have to understand that modern medicine will save lives, no matter under what system and, although we should be happy for that, we should be no happier than the fact that we can watch good quality television on a modern television set. There are many better systems than the NHS and, even under the current system, there are many ways of doing it better. Those who love and are proud of the NHS should read this thread critically and see what experiences people have really had.

I am eternally grateful for the NHS, I really am. I'd be dead now. Or in hundred of thousands of pounds of debt.

We all have our bad experiences, like everything, it isn't perfect. Which a lot of is down to money. But we are so lucky to have it.

larrygrylls - because we have no other choice? Because we aren't bitter? because we know it's not the front line people's faults?

If we have had superb experiences, but also bad, we should still be able to praise those good experiences.

But I suppose thats just my view, because I'm not ungrateful.

sounds like uggmum was close to death yet still describes herself as 'lucky'. Shes not alone on here in having had a terrible experience but still thinking we should stick with the NHS.

I wonder just what it would take for some people to say "theres some much better systems out there, I think a change would be better" instead of insisting its great, throwing good money after bad and dismissing the (all too frequent) horror stories as inevitable.

Ghostship, I'm grateful that we live in a country with a "free" NHS. I am grateful to the wonderful people who work in it.

I am also furious about the inefficiency of the NHS which allows for some of the problems people have encountered. I am furious too that the NHS don't sort out their bad apples until something awful forces it too.

For the same money the NHS could be so much better.

Captain,

The problem with "free at source" is it feels "free" and who wouldn't be grateful for someone saving one's life and charging nothing. It is one of those thinking flaws which behavioural economics deals with. Sunk money does not feel like money and we only think of the fees in the present tense.

And politicians and especially health service managers shamelessly exploit the above with stories of how the health service saved their lives. As if in the rest of Western Europe people are just allowed to die.

totally agree larry but are you talking to grovel?

It also works the other way round I think. Some providers have the sense that their patients are 'getting it for free' so don't bother with good standards of care or even manners.

Note 'some' - I take my hat off to some NHS employees but often their jobs are made impossible by the rotten apples that don't seem to have any accountability.

Im not sure nhs can go on like it is to be honest

I have seen good and bad.

fil treated badly and died in hospital.
recently granda given drugs which should have been due to previous medical conditiion resulting in early death-hospital/gps incompetant luckily much of his palative care. was nhs funded but in hospice attached to private hospital.

A family freind whos prostate cancer was missed then he was diagnosed with parkinsons then his family ended up spending £3000 of own money asdrug was availiable in england but not i wales such a postcode lottory.

Talking of wales they get free prescriptions hows that fair?

Blood tests taking 8weeks!

I had 1st born in hospital delivery suite was ok but postnatal ward was truly scary and dire,
Got home was very ill and gp wouldent come out to see me until midwife made a fuss.

gps-mixed some good some bad but need to book 3weeks+to get appointment with decent doctor. so bit of a nightmare as get crap one they do nothing and not very child freindly.

However the 2gps who are designated to homebirth visits and infants jabs are good.

Had 2nd at home -midwife dident make it in time

999 were fab
2ambulances arrived within 10mins.
midwife arrrived half hour after birth many live miles away so its luck of whos on call.

I did see much less of midwives with 2nd/3rd dident really feel special.

I had complications in pregnancy with 1st 2 and the antenatal care at hospital was good. However we did mot have nhs free scans at 12weeks with nhs so went with bupa womens health which was fab really made us feel listened to.

I have few freinds who had awful biths/maternity care.

I even looked into private but a private maternity hospital just not possible outside london:(

There are independant midwives but they not allowed to operate within hospitals.

we went private for kids jabs as nhs only offered mmr why they cant offer a choice god knows.

we used to have private cover through dhs work but we never used it plus labour added tax so was costing us 800quid a in year which wa sa free perk when he started.

I dont think health insurance should be taxed.

If i could pay to see a gp i would.

nhs walkin centres waste of time and in obscure places.

out of gps -ok better than current gps
helath visitor good but see lost whinging about them from others I think im just lucky with that one.

I have freinds who ork in nhs and theres so much waste .

Also they shut down perfect;y good hospitals build brand new ones with pfi and less beds.

The decsion to close our nearest is just about selling off land for housing and will cost lives.

Our 2trusts merging into super trusts which find very dissapointing.

I think we should make insurance more affordable not have us system.

so that the very wealthy who can afford it go private and eases burden on nhs.

I think many now would agree that they wanta reasonably prices private market.

so if I have sick child I can get a gp appointment without a battle.

Im just fed up of the battling for good service
being treated like neurotic mother.

Yes,

We have had one superb experience with the NHS (St George's PICU) and they deserve all the praise heaped upon them. But so many bad experiences, especially pregnancy, childbirth, the elderly, palliative care...I have mentioned just a few in a post above.

It seems that when people cannot use money to buy care, they use knowledge and ability to shout. I am not sure it is any fairer. It seems to me that those who have time to research, people to look after them and shout when things go wrong do so much better than the old and alone, or the shy and diffident.

And again there are some wonderful docs and nurses but not in that bunch are the doctor who refused to put down her clutchbag (she was obviously dragged off break) while attempting and failing to put a line into our seriously ill 5 weak old son, or the midwife who told my wife off when she asked for help in picking our newborn up for feeding one day after a C section. Also not in line for the pride of Britain award are the team at The Royal Free who left my 81 year old father to sleep in a chair (or rather, not sleep) for 3 days over a weekend as there was no one on duty to prescribe a simple diuretic after congestive heart failure. Or the marvelous docs many years ago who told my mother she was a hysterical woman when she had a burst ectopic and was 15 minutes from bleeding out. I could keep going with the list of heroic failures of our marvelous NHS.

People need to wake up. Most I know who have experienced care abroad are amazed by the cleanliness of the hospitals and the care they have received. The NHS defends itself using the strawman of appalling or expensive medical care overseas, hoping that 90% of its "clients" will not have actually experienced it and so be able to contradict them.

I'd sing the praises of St. Georges too for enabling me to have a water birth with my first, DD, in 1999. Night I spent on post-natal ward gets a fail though as I asked if someone could keep an eye on my new bundle whilst I went to the bathroom and pretty much got a "no, she'll be fine" as an answer. It was the way it was said that I found so unhelpful. This is a post-natal ward, first 24 hrs of being a mother, where's the friendly reassurance ?! That was all I needed but it wasn't available. I just share in the hope that maternity services can be improved - just a little more in resources and training, especially on post-natal wards, would make so much difference.

The more that parts of my family, live and work abroad, the more I am grateful for the NHS.

Find me a business with 60 million customers and no complaints.

Show me a more efficient and cheaper healthcare system in the rest of the world.

Find me a large organisation that got better because its finances were starved and systems changed every 2-3 years.

For those in London, the NHS budget is going to be cut by another 30%. Do you really want that? It will finish off the job that Thatcher started, Blair promoted and Cameron smirks about.

Wave bye bye the NHS.

I don't have private health insurance but can afford it. Can you?

I think given the level of funding the NHS has from the state it could be much better.
Some doctors and nurses and managers are superb- with facilities worth every penny of my taxes and more.
Other doctors and nurses are in permanent posts, playing the system, not bothered about patients, doing the minimum, delivering a terrible standard of care, and where Labour didn't renovate, the facilities are still out of the ark.
The advantage is that it is free at the point of delivery - this is a massive massive advantage. The disadvantage is that the postcode lottery, or staff prejudice means that not everyone gets the same level of care from the NHS.
I read somewhere that a white man with chest pain is treated very differently from a black woman with chest pain. This is unacceptable.

I should say as well that some doctors are worked to the bone whereas others have a fantastic timetable. Why is there so much variation?

I read somewhere that a white man with chest pain is treated very differently from a black woman with chest pain

I have never experienced this, never heard or seen it happen. When I do my placement in A&E I shall see for myself.

BUT it is a fact that males are more likely to be suffering from a heart attack than a woman. Not sure why colour would come into that...

It's not perfect, it needs improving, but it EXISTS! Thank god for that.

Also, from experience I have to say that paying privately for things doesn't guarantee a good service or good treatment.

My three year once suffered a concussion on the playground, nanny took him to GP across road, he threw up after head injury, was dizzy, and sleepy. GP said he wasn't registered and they could not help. Suggested he may have thrown up because he was nerous about being in unfamiliar GP surgery.

Fortunately, my nanny had the good sense to walk out the door and phone an ambulance, which took them to A and E. Still no concussion diagnosis. But we did later get an appointment for the ey nose and throat specialist to check if were happy with the shape of his nose.

So, I do sometimes wonder if the NHS thinks we are there to support them rather than them their to serve our medical needs.

But, then, I've met stupid doctors in the US on the private system as well. So hey ho...

I did after the incident described above talk to our GP, whom I like. She advised I go to a different hospital next time.

The concept of a free at the point of care healthcare system is fantastic and should be fully supported but the NHS wasn't originally designed to be the only healthcare provider so is understandably creaking under the burden of providing the vast majority of emergency and non-emergency healthcare.

One of the biggest issues is that the service is incredibly patchy. Whilst many GPs are excellent and keep up to date on everything there is no way that they can be experts on everything so as gatekeepers to specialist care they are automatically flawed. I am lucky to have an excellent GP who doesn't always look for the most common diagnosis but is prepared to do the research to find the right diagnosis and refer appropriately. As a result his appointments always run late but it's worth it for the high quality personal care.

Mental health provision is frankly appalling across the country and successive governments have done nothing to support better provision.

Hospital care is also patchy. In my experience the NHS is pretty good at routine or common stuff but pretty awful at dealing with complex, multi-specialist cases. My Dad's hip and knee replacements and cardiac care have been fine, my Mum's broken ankle was terribly badly handled as she has complex mobility issues and they had no idea how to re-mobilise her. 5 months in hospital later...

The NHS interface with social care is dreadful and needs urgent attention.

There are many fantastic people in the NHS - I'm related to lots of doctors and nurses and they are all incredibly committed and caring, working every long hours in difficult circumstances. However some staff are rude, uncommunicative and downright unhelpful. Ignoring a patient or relative standing at the nursing station whilst you talk about your boozy night out is not acceptable. Nor is letting the phone ring and ring whilst you chat about your holidays. Nor is not actioning referrals to other departments in the same hospital or attending case conferences, or arranging porters for appointments in different departments, or calling patients by the wrong name or being overly informal, or telling a patient that their son is 'tasty' etc etc etc

I'm a firm believer in the NHS but there's a lot of wasted resource and a lot of demoralised, and sometimes unpleasant, people who shouldn't be in caring professions working within the system.

It's a mixed bag but as a country we need to define what service we want, pay for it properly and hold it to account. The NHS can't do everything and shouldn't be expected to.