Are this bride and groom being unreasonable?

[TidyDancer]

Upcoming wedding, children are welcome. Quite large scale do.

One couple are being invited minus their DCs however, because they are very badly behaved. They have run amok at a wedding earlier in the year that the B&G of this wedding were present at. They have also done similar at other social gatherings.

The parents do not discipline their DCs. The mother refuses to because (and she does admit this) she is worried the DCs won't love her if she tells them off. The father is handsoff and defers to the mother on all childrearing issues. This has been the case since they were small children. One is now 10, the other 7.

The parents are angry the DCs have been excluded from this wedding and are thinking of confronting their friends. B&G did not want to have a childfree wedding, but they really do not want the drama and disturbance that accompanies this family with the undisciplined DCs. Other guests that have been present for the behaviour before have actively thanked the B&G for taking this step.

Who is unreasonable? The B&G for excluding the DCs, or the parents for kicking up a fuss about it?

[Chrysanthemum5]

I think the b&g are BU by not inviting the children, but inviting the adults. The children were not born like that (and no one is mentioning SEN) their parents have allowed the behaviour to develop. Yes it's the children who are being singled out as unwelcome.

And yes I do know parents who refuse to discipline their children ( because they feel it limits their DCs creativity to be told 'no') but I don't blame the children for the fact that their behaviour is appalling. Actually I feel sorry for them because no one wants to play with them.

So, I understand why the b&g did it, but I think it's pretty unkind. They should have not invited the whole family, and been honest about their reasons.

[QuanticoVirginia]

Its a shame that schools are not allowed to do this for trips

They certainly ban badly behaved children from trips at my sons' school. One boy behaved badly on atrip putting himself and others in danger and he wasn't allowed on any others for the rest of the year and then was 'on probation' for trips the following year.

[BoneyBackJefferson]

QuanticoVirginia
good to know that some schools do it :)

Chrysanthemum5
"(and no one is mentioning SEN)"

Its more disgusting that some people would excuse bad behaviour by invoking SEN.

[Sokmonsta]

I have 2 child free weddings next year. One I know for sure my children are not invited but at least one other couple will have their dc there. I'm not bothered as it'll be a rare and appreciated occasion for dh and I. The other couple'd dc is godson to the bride so of course they have a closer relationship. Plus I've got 4 kids who'd need catering for. Tis a no brainer.

The second wedding involves travel and two overnight stays. It's a smaller, second wedding for both parties. There may well be other children there. Again, b&g choice. I'm not offended. Dh is best man (again) for his best mate. He's godfather to one of our 4 but actually, it would be a pita having our children there and would impact on the occasion greatly.

I'm sure the b&g will tactfully explain why they don't want that couples children there. But others who say anything are just stirring, getting their own feelings across and trying to blame it on someone else so they can be all sympathetic. They are the ones being truly U and should butt out.

[TidyDancer]

They will be honest about their feelings, this is not a secret to the parents that other people think their DCs are badly behaved, as I said up thread, they know this and they are not trying to sugar coat it. The B&G just didn't want to exclude their friends and this was the only way they could have them there. They were not willing to have the children do what they did at a prior wedding. I don't blame them at all.

It's really not unkind, and hopefully it will be the turning point in getting the parents to do something about the behaviour.

There are no SNs.

[JustFabulous]

"It's a shame that schools are not alowed to do this for trips."

BoneyBackJefferson - I thought you meant school trips to weddings .

[McChristmasPants2012]

It's a shame your friends had to make this decsion, but i can understand the reason behind it.

[ajandjjmum]

It could be the wake up call both the parents and their children need.

You behave badly, you get excluded from nice things.

[Rudolphstolemycarrots]

At 7 and 10 their behavior should be impeccable on formal social occasions. Even my 4 year old and toddler can mange that!

I think the children do need to know they have been excluded from the event for previous bad behaviour. I think a little honestly would really help them and their parents in the long run. It takes a whole community to raise a child they say.

If really bad behaviour were to happen at school, there would be serious repercussions.

Why would a couple spend thousands on a wedding only for some horrors to turn thier special day into a nightmare.

[ilikemysleep]

I think B and G were in an awkward position and I think they have made a decision which may ensure their day goes well, but will probably destroy their friendship.

No-one has mentioned SEN as you say, and apparently in this case there are none. However, if there were SENs would that change things? My eldest is 11 and autistic. He probably would be okay but a crowd stresses him and he could meltdown if additional things went wrong - for example, if someone knocked over his drink. This would involve extremely loud screeching and crying and would certainly draw attention. Obviously I would take my ds away from the situation asap (he cannot be touched when in meltdown). I hate to think that any of my friends would want to not invite me or my son to their wedding, but the fact is, he could 'behave badly'. Those of you saying b and g are not unreasonable, would it be unreasonable not to invite my ds, who may also 'behave badly' because if his sen? Genuinely curious.

Boneybackjefferson, I am terribly sorry that you consider it disgusting that I explain (not excuse) my son's behaviour by invoking his sen. The fact that his sen is the cause of that behaviour, I assume, doesn't matter to perfect parents such as yourself.

[BoneyBackJefferson]

ilikemysleep
You are not invoking SEN, your DS has a need.
My disgust is with people who excuse bad behaviour by saying its caused by SEN, not with children who have SEN.

In my experience SEN children try their hardest to behave which can cause them even more stress.

[DeWe]

I think it sounds sensible.

If you have one set of children running around, other, better behaved children will be much more likely to join them. Firstly if there's others running around the parents may assume it's fine, secondly it is much harder to keep your child sitting nicely if others are running around.

If I was at a wedding and 2 dc of those ages were running round I might well end up sitting in the car with ds (age 5) to stop him joining. If there weren't children running around, I wouldn't have to do more than tell him that he wasn't allowed to run round.

[TidyDancer]

I think that's different iliketosleep, the overriding impression I get from my friends is that it's the parents inaction when their DCs misbehave that causes the resentment and therefore less good nature (if you will) in tolerating the DCs.

Wrt your DS, I don't want to patronise you or him and say that you would excuse any meltdown, but really that's what it comes down to. Any person, even a B or G, who would exclude a child with SEN on the basis of what might happen would not be someone I would want to associate with. I can't anticipate that a meltdown would ruin anything. With the DCs that are excluded from the wedding I am talking about, it is constant bad behaviour, maurauding about the place and the parents doing nothing about it. That is not what you are talking about.

I don't know if I'm explaining it properly really. I hope the intent is coming over.

[EverybodysSnowyEyed]

the only thing I think the B&G have been unreasonable about is the way the parents were told. It sounds like they received the invite and B&G were going to call later to explain. They should have called before sending the invite.

I don't think they are unreasonable, I agree that it is surprising that the childrens parents seem to think the behaviour should just be accepted

[EverybodysSnowyEyed]

iliketosleep - the difference is not between the children but between the parenting

i assume that if you took your ds to a wedding you would be trying to make the situation as stress free as possible. It sounds like the parents in the OP just stand back and watch.

[ethelb]

Tbh I think that lots of child free weddings are made child free to avoid inviting THAT family. Good on the bride and groom for being honest.

[quesadilla]

Don't blame B&G but by God it's going to cause an unholy row.

[pigletmania]

The bride n groom are right, you don't discipline your kids you suffer the consequences. B&g should stick to their guns

[Bogeyface]

I agree that with regard to SEN it isnt the child that is the issue but the parenting. My cousins son has severe SEN, he was invited to my wedding and I went out of my way to make sure that everything was as stress free for him (and his mum!) as possible. He did get very loud and shouty at one point, but that was fine, because it was a part of his issues.

At a friends wedding we went to was the child of a good friend of the groom who sounds very much like the children the OP was referring to. No discipline, no one stopped her yelling her head off during the speeches, walking up to people on other tables and taking their food (seriously!). But when my cousins son was being loud and shouty, no one minded because they knew it was a part of his issues. The little girl was a product of her lazy parents who decided that a wedding was a time for them to get pissed and everyone else to take care of their DD. I got quite pissed off, and when my DD (then aged 8 and younger than PITA child) said "you should sit down and behave properly" :o I got a mouthful off her mother for raising robots!

Good for the B&G.

[Bogeyface]

Sorry, my first sentence got mixed up thanks to the ipad!

I meant that with regard to children behaving badly it isnt SEN that is the issue, but the parent.

[MamyPoko]

I don't see how it's a wake up call for the parents, or how they are suffering the consequences for their parenting decisions, if they are welcome at the wedding (and, I think, at the OP's future wedding) without their children.

Bride and groom are within their rights to take a stand, but if the fault lies with the parents, isn't this a cop-out? Don't invite any of them.

[bottleofbeer]

I know of someone with kids like this. I'm a pretty tolerant person of kids and their behaviour at times. I've got four of my own and there isn't a tantrum at the worst possible time or place I've not been the victim of .

But my word, these kids are something else. The little girl, ugh, there is something so obviously wired wrong that as horrible as it sounds, she makes me shudder. She's so conniving, manipulative and just generally horrible that I really don't want my own daughter anywhere near her.

The parents are sooooo self absorbed that YES to the point that if your children are that awful to be around you have totally failed. It's come up time and again within groups of friends who know them. You can see people feel awkward broaching the subject but at some point every single person who knows these kids have said something along the lines of "is it just me or is that child really difficult to be around?". It's never been about bitching, it's been about people tentatively putting wondering if it's odd to feel that way about a child and massive relief when they're told that no, it's not just them.

I had a child free wedding but even if I hadn't she wouldn't have got within a million miles of it. Sounds shocking doesn't it? but I just cannot articulate what it is about her. I find myself feeling genuinely concerned for the kids she comes across in her life and as she grows up.

[OTheHugeManatee]

bottleofbeer Does she levitate near the ceiling? Projectile vomit whilst blaspheming, perhaps? Does her head rotate all the way round?

If so I can understand your concern