To wish people wouldn't hold my baby's hands

[anicegreentea]

especially at this bug ridden time of year.
I keep telling myself not to be uptight and just go with the flow. You can't stop people cooing over cute babies.
But yesterday lady in department store came over to talk to him, holding both hands for ages. Then he grabbed her pen which she thought was cute/funny. I didn't say anything - what can you say anyway?!
Today he has vomiting, temperature, runny nose. I know it might not have been from this lady, but also It might have been!
Also had uncomfortable incident when an old lady who looked almost homeless did something similar in marks and spencers a few months ago.
Do these things annoy anyone else?!

[exoticfruits]

Most of the time babies are perfectly happy-the problem lies with the mother. People have a view that when they have DCs they can control their whole environment-they simply can't outside the home.

[exoticfruits]

Babies are actually people.

But very different from adults.

[LimeLeafLizard]

It seems from this thread that if you want to touch a small baby, there is about an even chance that it's carer will either think you are a charming old lady or a filthy germ-ridden nutter.

So why not ask permission first?

Either you'll get your way and have your fun, or you'll be refused and can come on here and start a thread about how selfish, hysterical and pfb she was, so we can all have another bun fight. See, fun either way...

[elizaregina]

Is it also not possible to coo and ahh over a baby without actually
" manhandling" it?

Lots of people have been perfeclty lovely and pleasant over new baby BUT without actually touching her!

Even a quick light sort of poke that people do is just about OK. there are lots of ways for people to coo and be happy and share the love - without touching noses with baby and smearing germs all over it and sharing the germs.

[FamiliesShareGerms]

Personally, I loved it when random old ladies would hold DS's hands and coo about how lovely he was as a baby.

I'm not one for passing a baby round for a hold - eg when a colleague brings a baby into work, or at a wedding - but I will usually put my finger out to feel its teeny tiny little fingers curl around mine. And I don't ever always wash my hands before.

Unless there are very specific reasons why a baby needs protection from exposure to a wide variety of germs, OP YABcompletelyU

[JugglingWithPossibilities]

Liking it, LimeLeaf

[HildaOgden]

anicegreentea,how many times a day do you wash your owns hands...every time you use a phone/computer keyboard for example?They are 2 of the biggest sources of germs,apparently.Children need to be exposed to germs to develop their immune system naturally.It's also really unlikely that whatever ails your baby to do was caught from that woman as germs generally take longer to 'brew' into an illness,iykwim.

I think you're overthinking the germ thing.

[DilysPrice]

Normally I'm on the "oh get a grip you PFB loon" side of the fence, so it's a bit to find myself on the "babies have personal space too" side.

As a serial coochy-cooer to random passing babies I would never dream of reaching out to touch them - tbh I sometimes get evil looks from mothers just because I've been making faces/playing peekaboo with a neighbouring baby on the bus . Obviously they are PFB loons, but the point is that there is a line between coo-ing and touching, and it's not a difficult line to observe.

[squoosh]

It must be a cultural thing. Can you imagine this thread on Italian MN or Greek MN?

[InNeedOfBrandy]

I've just realised even though I have been vocal about poo particles and such like I never even used to hesitate to dump either dc on a nice lady while folding up buggy for the bus and such like. So I revise my earlier statements about germs, if I can hand one of my babies to a nice old lady to hold I won't mind a nice lady touching my babies hand. I now would wipe after though

[gordyslovesheep]

I am quiet happy to ignore your little germ ridden snot baby - fear not - some people do not think all babies are simply adorable - I don't

[elizaregina]

I personally usually coo at little ones too - or make faces. I wouldnt touch them though.

You have no idea what the circs are of that baby.

My DD was very very hard to feed - lots of reflux, coming down with plenty of things as she still does. They get exposed to plenty of germs anyway - without unneccasirly adding to it.

We were in and out of docs and peadiatricians with her weight - she dropped off the percintile thing altogether. Trying to build up her appetite again was a long up hill struggle and as she had absoluty no fat on her - when she was sick or ill - she dropped weight more rapildy than other chubbier babies - and was skin and bone.

Becasue of this - when we are ill and have a play date due et...I do always warn our hosts that we are ill - so they can cancel us if they want too because I know how awful it is - if you have a child like mine was.

One of the people who man handled my DD once was a nice lad - a firned of a friend of DH> once when we met up with the group this guy wasnt there - why........

" oh he has TB and I know he hasnt been taking his tablets!"

How long has he had it?

" a good few months"

[exoticfruits]

It must be a cultural thing. Can you imagine this thread on Italian MN or Greek MN?

They wouldn't understand it-and then the British get accused of not being child loving! The message from the parent is 'love my child on my terms-but it doesn't work that way-people are child loving on their own terms or they don't want to bother!

[Nanny0gg]

Pagwatch's post is so sensible it's worth repeating:
"The urge to touch a baby is natural and healthy. The fact that strngers are hard wired to feel affectionate and protective towards your child is good in societal terms. A baby is supremely vulnerable. Society valuing them is good. But by all means lets stamp this out. Let's get mothers and fathers telling strangers to fuck off and let's wipe them down with anti-bacterial cloths if a stranger comes too close. Then let's enjoy how often strangers want to help with buggies, have babies next to them in restaurants, on planes - lets see how that lost toddler in the shopping centre gets on. Let's just keep all human contact to a minimum. It's for the best. The urge to touch a baby is natural and healthy. The fact that strngers are hard wired to feel affectionate and protective towards your child is good in societal terms. A baby is supremely vulnerable. Society valuing them is good"

Or, alternatively, keep them indoors till they're 18...

[Nanny0gg]

And yes, it is different for babies with low immune systems, or prem babies.
But in general, the above stands.

[Mspontipine]

looked almost homeless

[Mrsjay]

Babies are quite clear if they don't like something! Generally it is the mother with the problem. It is much better for the baby to be social than live in a bubble.

this babies will cry if they dont like you and TBH there isnt that many baby botherers about just people and they dont dive into the pram to touch babies do they

[Mrsjay]

.runs and hugs pagwatch invading space and everything

we are essentially primates and primates value babies you will see them being touched by other females in the troop so think of that woman as a monkey next time she coos and touches your baby

[ThePathanKhansWitch]

We used to swim in a canal, where by all accounts children got polio.

We were horrible filthy kids, very rarely ill.

But i do understand ops worries.
But the childer need a bit of dirt to get their immunity goin

[exoticfruits]

It was in the news this week that our nuclear family is a very new thing and unnatural for children-in the past there would have been the extended family and the baby would likely have been used to be carried around by 8yr old sister or cousin etc. I can't see it is good for them to be kept in a sterile environment. The only reason to worry is, as someone has already said, if they have a problem with the immune system or are premature.
If the mothers who are fussing are honest they don't want strangers touching their baby even if they had showered, put on gowns, masks and gloves! They don't want strangers touching their baby -full stop!

[BuddyTheChristmasElf]

I agree, the mum-dad-baby bubble is unnatrual and not enough (that is if the dad gets a look in)

of course premature babies etc excepted, for otherwise healthy babies.. it takes a village and all that!

[LimeLeafLizard]

They don't want strangers touching their baby -full stop!

Exactly.

So in summary, this boils down to:

The stranger wants to touch the baby.
The parent does not want the stranger to touch the baby.

Who has the right to decide what happens in this circumstance?

[LilBlondePessimist]

Well, there is another slant to this. With ds1 I had crippling pnd from day 3 (didn't know what it was at that point obviously), and wouldn't let anyone touch him. My own dh only got to hold him about three or four times in the first four months of his life. I always made excuses to stop friends and family from touching/holding him. Took him everywhere with me in his car seat, ie toilet, shower, everywhere.

Had a random stranger touched or even breathed on him, it would have sent me into a massive panic attack, and I'd have taken him home and bathed him (and washed everything he was wearing, blankets etc as well). So, I understand how ridiculously unusual this is (and it's only recently I've been able to talk about it. And he's eight), but would it do any harm for people to ask mum/dad if they mind before touching baby? Might just save someone a bit of upset?

On the upside, meds and counselling sorted it out after about 11 months, and neither of us is the worse for it. Oh, and as a side note, even though I probably did nothing for his new immune system, he has been surprisingly robust and sick only a handful of times in his life.

[exoticfruits]

The stranger has the right to decide,LimeLeafLizard, or at least if not the right, they will if they want to. The mother has to realise that she can only control herself and she has no control over others and if she wants 'my baby, my rules' she has to stay at home! You can't control the entire environment out of the home - however much you might want to. Personally I don't touch random babies but other people will. If the baby doesn't like it they let them know!