to not understand how you can fire missiles targeting civilians and it not be a war crime

[Itsaboatjack]

now I'm not especially knowledgable about the problems in the middle east but surely firing missiles into a city intentionally killing civilians is some kind of war crime?

Doesn't change the fact that Israel are using their own military power and support from the US to get their own way so to speak. Hamas nor the Palestinians are perfect in any way, but at the end of the day what everyone conveniently forgets is that Israel stole land. You steal from someone, be ready to deal with the consequences. Why on earth would Palestine come to a peace agreement when firstly they know their religion is slandered and made out to be on of terror,and secondly if they know Israel with all their backing has no intention in hell if giving them their land back? How is that acceptable or even moral?

I think it is very difficult to be knowledgeable about this from reading UK press which is always biased. If you have come from there, it is very different to a commentator in the Guardian's version (the usual mn source of knowledge). I think the UK should leave things alone and concentrate on their own shit.

I definitely agree that so much of the needless killing on both sides is out of hopelessness and anger. Civilians are paying the price while leaders sit in their golden cages. Facts are, Palestine are volatile in their reaction because they have no support anywhere else and no military, both things that Israel have in abundance and yet abuse them knowingly.

"Facts are, Palestine are volatile in their reaction because they have no support anywhere else and no military"

FFS this is ridiculous! Apart from financial and military support from Iran, Syria and Lebanon to name a few.

Pinkeacock, easy to say but what if you are a British citizen such as myself with family ties in both countries. You cannot just forget about these things. One thing the majority of countries are guilty of is standing back and watching the slaughter of innocent people. Syria is a good example. Iraq and Afghanistan is irrelevant because anyone with an ounce of knowledge knows this was an excuse to get oil. The worlds leaders are inhumane and things will never change as long as they are in power.

Wow, thanks for writing that Red -- very evocative, and I completely agree with everything you say. (I have also spent some time in the Balkans and was similarly affected.)

For me personally, I can't look at Israel and Palestine and see one side as 'good' and the other as 'bad'. Instead I see the leaders of both sides as truly horrible and immoral people, and the civilians on both sides as the poor victims who have to suffer. It is the only way I can look at it.

I find the behaviour of the Israelis shocking, to say the least.

Poppyamex. Use your head. Compared to Israel they have peanuts, and now Syria is going down the pot they will not benefit financially I assure you. You need to see the bigger picture and avoid the daily fail if you want some real information.try watching aljazeera tv or any relevant stations and listen to the kids screaming in the hilltops of Palestine as the bombs go off. Israel are thieves and that prime minister of theirs is no less than a coward.

I AM the family tie.

It wasn't Palestinian land- it had been under British rule and Jewish people have always lived there. There has been peace plan after peace plan but the PLO and then Hamas refused them - I pity the Palestinian people for that. Most people would like to get on.

I find it interesting that the Syrians are massacring their civilians daily and many English people are like, meh, but if Israel tries to defend itself from attack, and try and take out a military org they are condemned.

well, not yours obviously but you know what I mean. It makes me sick when smug left wing brits commentate on a culture they couldn't even begin to understand.

It is nearly impossible to target anything with the missiles being used as they are very crude and unguided, the missiles will simply fall when they run out of fuel and a lot depends on the strength of the wind and wind direction, these missiles are very much a hit or miss weapon so accurate targetting is not an option.

any press here showing any sympathy for the Palestinian people are accused of being bias or worse anti semitic. You can feel sympathy for both sides I do but you can place the majority of blame on one side and feel horrified at how people are treated that does not mean you have no sympathy for all involved

Watch the news in the states and it is very much pro israel fight against terrorists Palestinians

Anyway I'm out of here. Majority of the world believes the anti islam lies and jihadist crap, and that won't change.

A history of persecution doesn't give anyone the right to turn round and start persecuting others. Civilians are being slaughtered - and the excuse that it is on both sides is very thin given the disproportionate access to and use of force. It is ordinary Palestinian civilians, including children, who are bearing the brunt.

Israel does have a history of getting way with criminal behaviour, however, Remember the Turkish ship they stormed, in international waters, killing nine people? Even Israeli protestors have been treated harshly although not killed.

I have sympathy for Israel being surrounded by hostile nations. But there is absolutely NO excuse for slaughtering innocent civilians.

I don't have sympathy for both sides. One side I support and the other I hate. End of story.

I just see a bunch of pretty desperate people on both sides.

What I will say is I do tend to think that 'terrorism' comes out of people who feel like they are a rat in a corner and its a last resort against the odds.

Thing is, Israel also feels like its cornered too...

There are no winners. Taking sides actually just ends up perpetuating the conflict and spreading it beyond its borders somewhat ironically.

I do not expect anyone who is caught up in the middle to feel differently

Having just returned, 2 weeks ago, from Israel, all I can say is that the Palestinians are a broken people from what I saw. They have NOTHING. I spent a day in Hebron. A once thriving town is now boarded and shuttered. Did you know that they have to put bloody nets above their streets to stop the Israeli occupiers throwing stuff at them. I saw urine being thrown through the netting at the Palestinian residents. I spoke to people. There is un undercurrent of hopelessness. It was hard to look at the Israeli soldiers (and it seemed to my untrained eye that they were strutting as they hoiked up their ever present rifles and patrolled) and not feel sorry for the Palestinians.

I crossed the border from Bethlehem into Jerusalem on the night of Eid. All well and good. Then on passing into the Israeli side, there were dozens of young and respectable Jewish men blasting loud music and dancing and jeering and shouting insults in the direction of the border. I was pretty shocked at this. These were nice young men but they were riling the Palestinians.

On the Palestinian side, I saw nothing but peaceful smiles and welcomes and EVEN gratitude that we were there as tourists pumping money into the system. I got no sense of that on the Israeli side. They didn't give a flying 4x that we were there. And neither should they be that bothered. But my goodness - what a difference between the two sides.

I have come away knowing exactly which side I sympathise with.

Israel will not be cornered as long as they remain the 51st state they have always been, the country is little more than an American missile base looking after American interests in the region all funded by America. If Israel had to stand on its own it would last a matter of days against its many enemies.

bureni - that is true and also true of the current regimes in some other Gulf states that are supported by the USA.

I do wish the whole 'Middle East Problem' discussions would focus on the real issue - that is, should the Jewish people have a Territory of their own?

This theoretical debate is what this war, and the slaughter involved, is based on. My personal view is that after the horrendous treatment the Jewish people have had in the past, the human race, collectively (ha!) should offer them a haven where they can be safe and secure. I think that's a fair call.

And if people move into that territory and start causing trouble, they are the trouble makers, not the Israelis who are trying to get on and live a peaceful life. They've been through enough, they really don't need this crap. Give the jews a break, that's what I say. I mean, if suddenly, Israelis thought 'OK, this isn't working, let's move out', where will they go? Poland? Germany? Russia? And would the Palestinians and their supporters be able to sleep more comfortably knowing they had destroyed the one hope that the Jews had?

Achillea - yes they probably would be able sleep knowing that. Given the way their land has been seized from them by Israel since 1948 I doubt very much they would care. Given the level of oppression the Palestinians have suffered,I doubt they would care very much at all at thig point.

Past suffering does not give licence to behaving any way one damn well wants to.

The great tragedy is of course,the average is Israeli and Palestinian civilians do just want to live peacefully and go about their lives,safe to walk down the street.

But why should the Palestinians be the ones to cede their land?

Quite Green.

The Middle East problem is no longer "should Israel exist"...it's "should Israel give back some of the land it has now stolen from Palestine". In my personal opinion.